Important Monk Spirit Gen Attack Speed Modification Info der=0>

[Such Violent Storms]

FoT is by far the strongest single target spirit generator we have so far, a full 14% faster than deadly reach and 27% faster than crippling wave. That translates directly to a 14% and 27% dps increase. How exactly do you figure it is the weakest?

I think because both CW and DR can strike many more enemies in one usage than FOT can. In addition, depending on how high you can get your crit chance, Blazing Fist-runed WotHF could beat FOT for speed, and in general I think WotHF would beast FOT for single-target damage.

You also have to take into consideration combining generators, such as 2 strikes with Mangle-runed CW and a third strike from Windforce Flurry-runed WotHF for high, multiple-enemy-hitting damage.

[Glowyrm]

Very interesting. I had figured FoT was always faster than DR but if it's only the third strike, FoT seems much less useful. The first two strikes are just like DR minus the AoE. :|

I don't know if I agree with that.

The 3rd hit of FoT is faster than your current APS where as the 3rd hit of DR is actually slower than you normally attack.

Over time, that difference in speed will add up. That means that if you want to generate more spirit, FoT has a big advantage there, which is the main point of the skill anyway. Also, Deadly Reach probably kills more monsters per hit, meaning you have less targets to generate on.

...depending on how high you can get your crit chance, Blazing Fist-runed WotHF could beat FOT for speed, and in general I think WotHF would beast FOT for single-target damage. .

I think WotHF is actually slower than the other generators. The last 3rd hit especially, since it's actually a bunch of smaller hits (7 hits for 20% damage each).

If anything, I can see it having similar DPS to FoT but generating less Spirit because it will have less hits on an enemy (it's slower but more damage, same DPS, less hits).

So WotHF isn't better than FoT at single-target damage, it's just different. Instead of being great for generating Spirit like FoT, it fills the niche of a skill that can proc "on hit" and "on crit" abilities often since it actually has 9 total "ticks" of damage in one full combo cycle (although it counts as only 3 hits for Spirit generating).

This is assuming that WotHF has a slower modifier than the other generators, which would make sense given it's higher damage.

[Wolfpaq777]

I think because both CW and DR can strike many more enemies in one usage than FOT can. In addition, depending on how high you can get your crit chance, Blazing Fist-runed WotHF could beat FOT for speed, and in general I think WotHF would beast FOT for single-target damage.

You also have to take into consideration combining generators, such as 2 strikes with Mangle-runed CW and a third strike from Windforce Flurry-runed WotHF for high, multiple-enemy-hitting damage.

Because generators CW and DR can hit more targets than FoT, FoT is weaker? No, definitely not. Single target damage is very important, not to mention the drastic increase in spirit generation from FoT. You realize that our heaviest AoE damage comes from spirit spenders right? In addition to giving us a 14% more damage it's also giving us 14% more spirit (than DR, those numbers skyrocket to 27% for CW. No idea what it is for WotHF).

I'm going to ignore everything you said about WotHF because it's an unknown. "If" our crit can get high enough. "Could" beat FoT for speed. "Might" beat FoT for single target. Sure it might and it might not. However right now, of the 3 spirit generators that we have hard data on, FoT is the strongest for single target and spirit generating purposes. Seeing as the purpose of a generator is to generate spirit, I'd hardly call it the "weakest". I'm not saying it's by far the best all give it glory, but it is certainly stronger than DR and CW based on what we've seen so far of the game. Calling it "the weakest" is downright ignorant. Could future runes change things up? Certainly. We haven't tried the vast majority of skill runes so the fact is we have no idea which generator will be the strongest or the weakest. Edit: One would hope that each generator will have its niche to fill and *none* of them will be the weakest. Or at least, that's what I hope.

Also don't underestimate the teleport component of thunderclap. Being able to rapidly close gaps is a big part of dps for melee classes.

[HardRock]

Interesting, I concur with z00t is there a place I can read about these innate bonus/fixed attacks for barbs? Sounds like a must read.

It's good to see that many people here are interested in every little detail of the combat system, just like myself. Here's Superstate's post that I was talking about: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...t=#post8266168

However I would be interested to know if there's anyway you can increase the other pets attack speed such as zombie dogs, gargantuan, & the wizard's hydra since they can't exactly be spammed like corpse spiders are.

Well, I can only tell you that the attack speed of ZD's doesn't increase with our own APS, but their damage does. Basically their damage is our DPS * 0.09. Gargantuan most likely works the same way and probably Hydra does too.

Yea, people are all over FoT but it remains the weakest (as far as damage output) of the spirit generators.

If you compare it to AoE generators, then that's true. However, the main selling point of FoT (with any rune option) is its ability to generate Spirit crazy fast. It's single target DPS is nothing to scoff at either.

[yovargas]

My point was that - rune effects aside - there is no point in doing Fot-Fot-CW. You should stick with DR-DR-CW as it's the same speed/dmg and has more AoE.

[HardRock]

I'm not so sure about the results Apples got about Deadly Reach. It's noticeably slower than Fists of Lightning. On the 4th page of the thread HolyRedBull's results differ, so Apples may have got some numbers wrong. I'll do my own tests tonight.

[Valkemen]

I think that you are talking about an old discovery known since December.

Take a look:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455189

Test results are almost the same, but methodology different:

Crippling Wave - about 15% faster than normal attack
Deadly Reach - about 35% faster than normal attack
Fists of Thunder - about 55% faster than normal attack

Why Monk has different speeds?

I think that there are two major reasons:

Damage
The second and third hit of Crippling Wave and Deadly Reach, can hit several enemies at once. Fist of Thunder can be AoE only in the third phase. That's why FoT is the fastest. Ofc, we are talking about unruned versions.

Spirit
Quickening, Strike from Beyond and Rising Tide can produce more Spirit from critical hits (15, 10, 5). More targets to get a critical chance, less Spirit regenerated.

Different speeds and different volumes of regenerated Spirit of three tested skills mean that all of them are equal in making dmg/Spirit per second and monk can choose them without penalize himself, to play own most liked style.

[Torr]

Since none of us will be using these skills unruned, the only way to truly compare damage is to compare all of the skill rune effects and relative area of effect, with the attack speed multipliers applied to them. There are also subjective effects like what Wolfpaq said about Thunderclap teleporting speeding up your attack rate (reducing the need to close), and the effect of spirit gaining runes (which can also be considered a damage gain in a sense if the spirit from them is then used for another attack like 7SS).

The amount of variables and subjective "best guesses" is more work then I have time to do, so I would just say that I think inherent APS multiples in generators does not equal damage. They are just another variable to plug into the equation.

[Wolfpaq777]

Thunderclap teleporting speeding up your attack rate (reducing the need to close)

I have to say one of my favorite things to do is to lashing tail kick something away from me and then immediately be on top of them spamming FoT.

Got my beta monk up to 2.27 listed attack speed unbuffed and it is ridiculous. Most fun I've had in beta by far.

I'm disappointed that our fist weapons are slower than daggers. WTF bliz!

[HardRock]

Got my beta monk up to 2.27 listed attack speed unbuffed and it is ridiculous. Most fun I've had in beta by far.

I don't want to start an APS race here, but if you enjoy ridiculous attack speeds you should try to find two Balanced hand crossbows and a Frenzied shrine for your DH. I reached 2.78 APS this way. Rapid Fire is a thing of beauty with an attack speed like that.