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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member cozmiccc's Avatar
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    Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    What I found to be the biggest problem with monk is that almost all of his runeskills effects are boring and uninspired.... "What's that? +10 spirit when critical? lower spirit cost? increase dodge chance for no reason?" yawnn.... And the skill functionality doesn't change at all. Why can't we have it like WD where his rune can turn random frog swarm to a rain of toad or turn a zombie charger to zombie bear stampede...


    Also we know that on one of the tradeshow demo Monk was the only one without runes effect implemented. It's pretty clear that Blizzard did Monk's rune last and rushed through it to meet the deadline. Sad but true... :(



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member Cid's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    somehow i have to agree, the effects are lackluster.
    and, seriously, with all the delays they had more then enough time to do a better job.

    i still enjoy playing the monk in the beta now and then though.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member cozmiccc's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    Yeah I enjoyed playing monk as well, and it really no balance issue or game-breaking anything. I'm sure that no matter how uninspired each runes made to be, Blizzard will do a good job on balancing it against other skills/runes effect by other class well...

    I just wish that the effect are more flashy or unique, something that change the skill completely and present different use on different situation, just something that makes unlocking these runes to be more... fun



  4. #4
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    well i have to agree ; when the calculator was first announced we atleast had some interresting synergies and domino effect skills ; despite the fact that the monks always had the least skills and passives of all classes ;

    with the latest 3-4 patches in which every rune and special-effect got streamlined most skills became awfully boring and uninspired



    Mantras , might be powerful especially in groups ; but there is no depth to them and they are boring
    Serenity , Healing Breath and Inner Circle are awfully boring and uninspired
    Blinding Flash is just a weaker variety of Frostnova / Stomp

    there is not enough depth in the combo system ; The only thing which currently supports multiple spirit spender is combination strike ; but sorry guys @ blizzard thats not enough for me ; even the assasin was deeper

    Spirit Spender ; really the only skills which stuck out for me were Wave of Light and Seven Sided Strike ; as being "monkish"
    Wave of Light seemed rather weak to me, though atleast it looked cool ;

    the rest of his skills are just worse less inspired varieties of skills which other classes already have.


    that being said Monk went from my 1st. class to 4th. the Barbarian just seems better at everything which supposedly is "great" about the monk.



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member cozmiccc's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    On another related note Monk is also left with the fewest number of skills, only 21 and even worse, 4 of them are just variation of mantra, compare that with Wizard who has 25 skills and only 3 variation of Armour. When all the skills and runes were announced I thought Blizzard was still working on the skills and that all classes will be given new skills until they all have 25... apparently I was wrong :S



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Torr's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    I'm not going to dismiss your feelings, because everyone is entitled to their perspective on the class. But I always felt from the beginning that it would work out that the ranged classes would have better overall skills than the melee classes. I think they should have better skills, since they need to stay at range and can get into trouble when they get surrounded, as opposed to monks and barbs who thrive under those situations. Monks and barbs have skills built to make them last at close range, thier main attributes raise their armor/dodge, plus their armor will be geared towards survival. I also believe I read somewhere that they get an inherent damage resistance? It wouldn't be fair to give all of that survival advantage to the melee classes and also have the most dynamic skill sets in my opinion.

    So I think monks should only be compared to barbs from a skill perspective. Having played them in the beta, I find that the barb can take a boatload of punishment, but his damage doesn't compare to monk damage. When I play the monk I'm a killing machine... when I play the barb everything seems much slower, he kills slower. But at the end of the battle he'll barely have a scratch because he is so tough. I really like alot of the monk's base skills over what the barb offers, and spirit doesn't degenerate. As for the runes... well they are just bonuses for the main skills. They don't change the skills, but then again the monk is not a wizard. Much of the barb's skills don't change the skill either... just the effectiveness. So I find the "uninspired runes" issue to be a melee thing. Classes like the wizard and WD need to have "lots of different spells".

    For me, having played the beta for awhile now, the monk is by far my favorite class still. When I stop playing the monk and move to a different class... I just feel slower. I miss the action and movement.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member cozmiccc's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    Quote Originally Posted by Torr View Post
    I'm not going to dismiss your feelings, because everyone is entitled to their perspective on the class. But I always felt from the beginning that it would work out that the ranged classes would have better overall skills than the melee classes. I think they should have better skills, since they need to stay at range and can get into trouble when they get surrounded, as opposed to monks and barbs who thrive under those situations. Monks and barbs have skills built to make them last at close range, thier main attributes raise their armor/dodge, plus their armor will be geared towards survival. I also believe I read somewhere that they get an inherent damage resistance? It wouldn't be fair to give all of that survival advantage to the melee classes and also have the most dynamic skill sets in my opinion.

    So I think monks should only be compared to barbs from a skill perspective. Having played them in the beta, I find that the barb can take a boatload of punishment, but his damage doesn't compare to monk damage. When I play the monk I'm a killing machine... when I play the barb everything seems much slower, he kills slower. But at the end of the battle he'll barely have a scratch because he is so tough. I really like alot of the monk's base skills over what the barb offers, and spirit doesn't degenerate. As for the runes... well they are just bonuses for the main skills. They don't change the skills, but then again the monk is not a wizard. Much of the barb's skills don't change the skill either... just the effectiveness. So I find the "uninspired runes" issue to be a melee thing. Classes like the wizard and WD need to have "lots of different spells".

    For me, having played the beta for awhile now, the monk is by far my favorite class still. When I stop playing the monk and move to a different class... I just feel slower. I miss the action and movement.
    I actually agree with you... but I'm not talking about OP stats or usefulness at all. I'm sure that Monk skills and runes will be viable compared to other class. Blizzard has proved their excellence on game balance, I don't doubt that at all.

    What I'm saying is that Monk's rune effect are lackluster and uninspired. Blizzard said that most runes are going to fundamentally changes how the main skills function and its effect, but I don't see that at all. Instead of doing major changes or variety, most runes runs along the line of "+spirit regen" "+dodge chance" or "reduced spirit cost" You can't flat out say that those effect are not boring. And that against what Blizzard said they want runes to be...

    If you look at any WD skills, their runeskills effect are more varied and diverse, it doesn't unbalance the game but just make it more..... fun, on the other hand Monk runes are looking like Blizzard running out of ideas... or rushed.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Snerra's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    I agree a hundred percent. Actually, one of the things that bothered me after playing the beta was how similar the monk's primary skills are - in practice, I barely noticed a difference between fists of thunder, deadly reach and crippling wave. I haven't tried the thunder clap rune yet, though, so that may change things.

    I miss some skills that change your play style. I would love to see i.e. deadly reach be an actual ranged attack (with slightly lower dmg than the melee skills and maybe only medium range).

    A few skills seem plain useless: Tempest rush and wave of light, mainly.

    - Tempest rush does very little damage, slows for only 2 sec, and is channelled; so when are you going to deal damage? The runes don't even improve it by much.

    - Wave of Light: 75 spirit cost is too much imo. Lashing Tail Kick at 30 spirit makes the skill pretty redundant. 2 kicks do more damage and is still cheaper.

    Well, there's still a lot we haven't seen and tried, so maybe it's not as bad as we think..



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member z00t's Avatar
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until I get to play with the Monk in the full version of the game.

    Sometimes, Runes which seemingly sound not-too-exciting have a much more fun impact than you would imagine (the Thunderclap rune for Fists of Thunder is totally this for me).

    Also, keep in mind, while the WD may have some 'funky' rune effects (Snake to the Face, for instance), sometimes they are just there 'for fun' and actually aren't very good, gameplay-wise. The Monk, I find, has more consistently-useful Rune effects, even if some of them may not be as outlandish.

    @Snerra - Tempest Rush's main purpose isn't to damage (that's just a nice bonus), it's mainly there as a mobility/utility skill. I actually do find it incredibly useful. When there's a massive wall of skeletons protecting a Tomb Guardian, I can just Tempest Rush through the mob and easily take out the guys at the back. Dashing Strike serves a similar purpose though, so I usually only take one of the two. Tempest Rush can be better than Dashing Strike because of Dashing Strike's limited range and the fact that you yourself are rooted with a short animation after performing that skill - it makes Tempest Rush better for manuevering over a longer distance, I feel.



  10. #10
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    Re: Blizzard rushed Monk's development

    The monk has potential to be incredible with a few simple changes. My biggest concern about the monk is the combo system and how restrictive it is. For almost any testable spirit spender you can't do generator lvl 1 > spirit spender -> generator lvl 2 since the animations are to long. My suggestions allow this simple sequence to be possible as well as more elaborate ones. I also have a few ideas on how the dash could be more useful and interesting. In the linked thread I go into great detail on how the monk could be improved. In the current form I'll probably pass on D3.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4079621943



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