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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Eeryck's Avatar
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    Gold Only on RMAH

    So the more and more that I think about the D3 economy I keep coming to the same conclusion, that over a fairly short time the RMAH will only become a place to sell gold.

    I suspect there is something I am missing and there will be reason that other items will go up.

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. Gold AH will be used by all players
    2. Gold AH will be where most commodities are traded and re-traded (crafting materials, gems, etc)
    3. Easier to absorb any gold transaction fee due to gold being disconnected from Real Money (mentally only)
    4. Gold AH has more buyers so it is easier to get a high gold price for something
    5. Gold AH economy will eventually stabilize due to large volume of users with either a fixed rate of inflation or deflation based on gold income vs gold sinks and expanding or declining player base.

    So for the people that play the economy, it would seem that you would want to control the gold cost of items and then sell gold on the RMAH. Trying to create and manage a sub-economy of top tier items on the RMAH does not seem particularly wise in maximizing profit.

    What am I missing?



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    Transactions worth over 250 dollars will be doable through the GAH too.




  3. #3
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    The thing is, if you buy gold and then use the gold to buy an item you are hit by the fee twice, paying more than if you just bought the item on the RMAH. That's already enough of a reason to put up items on the RMAH, of course if we assume people really will be spending real money in the first place.

    I agree, though, that it would be more comfortable to only trade gold on the RMAH and trade the rest on the GAH, but since it has a hefty cost I doubt that it'll kill non-gold RMAH trading.




  4. #4
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    The real reason you wouldn't want to do this, is because of how the fee on the RMAH works. Flat $1.25 vs 15%. You will lose less of your "investment" with an item vs gold on high priced items.



  5. #5
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    What your are missing? Well, A LOT.

    No offence, but your understanding of economics is limited, so i will try to answer in simple terms why you are wrong.

    1.Gold AH will be used by all players.
    Yes, all players that will sell or buy will use the GAH...but some of them will use the RMAH also.

    2.Gold AH will be where most commodities are traded and re-traded (crafting materials, gems, etc).
    Not entirely true.First, GOLD is one of the commodities because it can be sold in RMAH.Second, some crafting materials (few, not all, but still some) will worth too much gold, and so, some sellers will list them in RMAH.Not saying that will be more or less than GAH (we don't know yet), but will be a fraction.Third, a number of high lvl gems (lvl 9, 10 up to 14) will be listed in RMAH, because they will worth too much gold to be listed in GAH.How many of them, we don't know, but a fraction will be sold in RMAH.

    3.Easier to absorb any gold transaction fee due to gold being disconnected from Real Money (mentally only)
    Plain wrong.Gold is NOT disconnected from RMAH, ESPECIALLY mentally.Ask anyone about what can be sold in RMAH and most will start with the word "gold".

    4. Gold AH has more buyers so it is easier to get a high gold price for something.
    And will also have more sellers, so it is easier to get a lower gold price for something.See what i did here?I just used your first point to prove you are wrong.

    5. Gold AH economy will eventually stabilize due to large volume of users with either a fixed rate of inflation or deflation based on gold income vs gold sinks and expanding or declining player base.
    A large number of users does not mean GAH will stabilize.A proper rate of item drops, gold drops and reliable gold sinks will do it.RMAH will also have a LARGE number of users (let's say only 10% will use RMAH (mostly sellers, but you will get the point) still means 500,000 users.
    WoW servers have 2,000-4,000 users / faction and have a quite stable AH.A fixed rate of inflation or deflation...not going to happend.Main reason is that one month inflation might be 30%, next month 5%, next one 15%...in the best case, because the inflation will probably be modified weekly or even daily.


    However, what you really missed is ITEMS and the true VALUE of some of them (legendary, perfect rares, lvl 14 gems).Those items will have a REAL MONEY value, and while i do not exclude that some players will post a legendary in GAH, the price will be ridicously high in gold, probably in terms of 500-600 hours worth of farming...BUT if that guy will see (and will see) a comparable item in RMAH for 150$, would he be enticed to sell it for gold or real money? I think we both know the answer.

    So no, the RMAH will not become only a place to sell gold.



  6. #6
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    how much gold for 2 sorc/10cfr/2x str/2x dex/1x all res amulet?



  7. #7
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    The RMAH will become a place to only sell gold IF no items that are worth more than 4.5$ drop. Once items are worth more than 4.5$, they're worth listing on the RMAH. 4.5$ or less, and you're better off selling them on the GAH and then selling the gold on the RMAH. This is all due to the 1.25$ fee for items and 15% fee for gold on the RMAH, and 15% overall fee on the GAH.




  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Eeryck's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    What your are missing? Well, A LOT.

    No offence, but your understanding of economics is limited, so i will try to answer in simple terms why you are wrong.
    Quite passionate aren't we. My understanding of Economics is really quite good on both the Macro and Micro side and if you would be so kind to use reasonably intelligent language I wouldn't consider you such a troll!

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    2.Gold AH will be where most commodities are traded and re-traded (crafting materials, gems, etc).
    Not entirely true.First, GOLD is one of the commodities because it can be sold in RMAH.Second, some crafting materials (few, not all, but still some) will worth too much gold, and so, some sellers will list them in RMAH.Not saying that will be more or less than GAH (we don't know yet), but will be a fraction.Third, a number of high lvl gems (lvl 9, 10 up to 14) will be listed in RMAH, because they will worth too much gold to be listed in GAH.How many of them, we don't know, but a fraction will be sold in RMAH.
    The entire basis of your argument is that there will not be enough gold sinks in the game. This is still to be determined. Further RMAH is limited to $250 cap. So there is really a greater limit on how much you can sell things for on the RMAH than the gold AH.

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    3.Easier to absorb any gold transaction fee due to gold being disconnected from Real Money (mentally only)
    Plain wrong.Gold is NOT disconnected from RMAH, ESPECIALLY mentally.Ask anyone about what can be sold in RMAH and most will start with the word "gold".
    For most people playing the game, GAH will become something they commonly use. If gold is balanced, they will constantly want for more gold to buy more items. Most likely forgetting that they can sell excess gold because they will rarely have any. Yes I do believe that Blizzard will have enough gold sinks to keep gold viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    4. Gold AH has more buyers so it is easier to get a high gold price for something.
    And will also have more sellers, so it is easier to get a lower gold price for something.See what i did here?I just used your first point to prove you are wrong.
    Ahhh, but you really missed the point. The rarity of the item limits the number of sellers. Since there are a number of people that are adverse to RMAH, the GAH offers opportunity to reach the largest audience. Then you sell your gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    5. Gold AH economy will eventually stabilize due to large volume of users with either a fixed rate of inflation or deflation based on gold income vs gold sinks and expanding or declining player base.
    A large number of users does not mean GAH will stabilize.A proper rate of item drops, gold drops and reliable gold sinks will do it.RMAH will also have a LARGE number of users (let's say only 10% will use RMAH (mostly sellers, but you will get the point) still means 500,000 users.
    WoW servers have 2,000-4,000 users / faction and have a quite stable AH.A fixed rate of inflation or deflation...not going to happend.Main reason is that one month inflation might be 30%, next month 5%, next one 15%...in the best case, because the inflation will probably be modified weekly or even daily.
    Check your facts on WoW, quite often someone has come along and gotten gold capped while destroying a servers economy. I should have said a measurable rate of inflation. You have still not made any reasonable arguements and your post largely restated what I said anyway, was this really a counterpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by semakka View Post
    However, what you really missed is ITEMS and the true VALUE of some of them (legendary, perfect rares, lvl 14 gems).Those items will have a REAL MONEY value, and while i do not exclude that some players will post a legendary in GAH, the price will be ridicously high in gold, probably in terms of 500-600 hours worth of farming...BUT if that guy will see (and will see) a comparable item in RMAH for 150$, would he be enticed to sell it for gold or real money? I think we both know the answer.

    So no, the RMAH will not become only a place to sell gold.
    I still don't see where you have made a reasonable point. Also, what about the $250 dollar cap on RMAH. Sure day 1 some of the legendaries will show up on RMAH. I just think that once the economy sorts itself out, say 3-months time or so, that most only thing on RMAH will be gold with all items and materials going to gold AH. Of course there will be a rare poster that puts up an item but with the direct link between gold and money, it still seems to me that overtime it will go to gold only on RMAH.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member Eeryck's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    Quote Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
    The RMAH will become a place to only sell gold IF no items that are worth more than 4.5$ drop. Once items are worth more than 4.5$, they're worth listing on the RMAH. 4.5$ or less, and you're better off selling them on the GAH and then selling the gold on the RMAH. This is all due to the 1.25$ fee for items and 15% fee for gold on the RMAH, and 15% overall fee on the GAH.
    Yeah I thought about this. On the other hand, based on the extra fee, if the price is padded on the gold AH this would be offset.

    The main reason that I just keep thinking about this is that since gold and money are tied and they will be measured and updated constantly by external sites, it becomes a known quantity. So if you were going to sell something for $10 dollars and 1000 gold = $1 it would seem that you post for 10,000 gold (plus buffer to cover 15% fee) Then sell your 10,000 gold.

    Sure in this way you may make slightly less profit if you get your buffer wrong but, both sales transactions should complete much more quickly. If you are looking to make any money in D3 you are going to have to do a high volume of transactions. Since there are people who are looking to make money the system will become optimized.

    Since gold = money, it seems like it would be most prudent to get market value from the GAH and turn around and sell the gold. Of course this all breaks down if gold is not balanced.



  10. #10
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    Re: Gold Only on RMAH

    You have to think in terms of "how much it costs the end-user, aka buyer". He'll buy the cheapest he can get. You can't just increase the price and expect him to pay up, as if you can do that on the GAH, you could have done it on the RMAH as well, and maybe even break the 4.5$ line to make it even more worthwhile to you (note that buyers don't care about the 4.5$ line).

    I really hope gold won't get inflated, because then gold and GAH will be useless, and the only items we can trade are items that are expensive enough for people to bother placing them on the RMAH, or of course old-school D2-style trading for a new currency (say gems or essences).




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