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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Risingred's Avatar
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    Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Made this video this morning.



    Now, I'm not saying Bashiok is wrong. I'm saying he isn't quite as accurate as we would have liked. I don't think he watched the original video in this thread:

    http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/10/...#postId_425146


    So, what's the difference between that guy's video and the one I posted in this thread?

    I wasn't lagging at all. No lag whatsoever. This is what the game is supposed to look like when it's running efficiently, and correctly.

    Bashiok was correct about calculating damage/miss/hit, where the animation isn't the deciding factor of whether or not you successfully dodged. But what he isn't correct on is saying that the stuff shown in the video is intentional. It's highly misleading to say it is.

    While technically, yes, it is working as intended, I could argue that no, it isn't being displayed correctly which is the actual issue here. It is wrong to say that a monster can hit you from half a screen away with a melee attack.



  2. #2
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    So, what's the difference between that guy's video and the one I posted in this thread?
    Monster size/type?

    Didn't Flux say in the article comments that this is that exact monster type that relied on telegraphed (i.e. not true melee, but AoE spells at melee range) attacks?




  3. #3
    IncGamers Member Risingred's Avatar
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Quote Originally Posted by konfeta View Post
    Monster size/type?

    Didn't Flux say in the article comments that this is that exact monster type that relied on telegraphed (i.e. not true melee, but AoE spells at melee range) attacks?
    That's completely irrelevant to what Bashiok said, which is what I was responding to.
    The original video, the witch doctor and the zombie, reinforces that this is lag. I explained this in a shallow way in the video description, but D3 uses a predictive latency model. The effect of that is that it basically covers up/masks lag to make the game appear to be running smoothly.

    What you see in the video is a loss of sync between character location and damage calculation/display. It's a display error.

    Edit for clarity: According to Bashiok, I should have taken damage from each hit that was swung at me. Not the hits swung at the scenery, which I don't even know why they do that. The damage would have been received and displayed when the unburied's animation finished.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Sulle's Avatar
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Red, if you still donīt have that much lag, then perhaps you could try and make a small video with a zombie like the other guy did?

    I would actually like to see that out of curiousity because I have the feeling that the other guy was lagging a lot, which possibly made the situation seem much worse than it would otherwise have been.



  5. #5
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    When you submit a bug or issue they often ask for a video of it. Since the guy included a video I think it's likely that Bash watched it. I also think it's likely they've played their own game and know what's working and what's not. Especially something like this you'll notice right away. They're on record as liking sticky targeting and um...sticky receiving damage? So I'm pretty sure it's intentional.

    I think the most ridiculous sticky hitting is the SK's teleport attack. It's almost impossible to reliably dodge, even if you vault away as he disappears.




  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Risingred's Avatar
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulle View Post
    Red, if you still donīt have that much lag, then perhaps you could try and make a small video with a zombie like the other guy did?

    I would actually like to see that out of curiousity because I have the feeling that the other guy was lagging a lot, which possibly made the situation seem much worse than it would otherwise have been.
    I just made a video of a DH successfully dodging a melee swing from a zombie with 88ms latency.
    I don't have time to upload it, though, I have a meeting to get ready for and school.

    Since the guy included a video I think it's likely that Bash watched it. I also think it's likely they've played their own game and know what's working and what's not.
    Sure, naturally. Just like how there wouldn't be chat channels and all sorts of other errors from the CMs.

    If Vasadan steps up and says, yes, this is exactly how it is supposed to operate (as per the original video) then I will accept that and ask that they tweak it because it's ridiculous.
    I know I may be wrong, but I have video proof of it otherwise.



  7. #7
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Alright, post that video when you can. Multiple trials if you can, please. I watched the original video, and the Zombie there also missed several times. Not sure, but I think there was a difference in terms of range - when the WD walked closer to the zombie, the hit connected, when he turned away a little earlier, the animation played but no hit occurred.




  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Risingred's Avatar
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    Quote Originally Posted by konfeta View Post
    Alright, post that video when you can. Multiple trials if you can, please. I watched the original video, and the Zombie there also missed several times. Not sure, but I think there was a difference in terms of range - when the WD walked closer to the zombie, the hit connected, when he turned away a little earlier, the animation played but no hit occurred.
    That's precisely the problem. According to Bashiok, our only blue source on this, if the animation plays then it should register a hit and you aren't able to dodge it by moving around.



    The only problem I have with this is when the damage is being displayed or perhaps calculated. If something is going to inflict damage, for the good of the game and taking into account latency, I think it should immediately display/take off health instead of waiting for a cumbersome animation to display. Why? So you can adjust accordingly, pop a pot if you have to, and not make the game "feel" like you're playing through constant lag even if you aren't.

    I don't have time to make anything else at the moment as I have go to. Running late for this crap. :(



  9. #9
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    So, your issue is consistency. I suppose that would be nice to get a clarification on. Go badger Bashiok for an answer on this?

    Maybe its because I am not playing it, but the videos don't make it feel like this is laggy gameplay, though. At worst, feels like there is an unknown under-the-hood mechanic that determines what registers a hit which needs to be repetitively tested to identify (for example, the range/time spent in enemy range hypothesis).




  10. #10
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Monster Melee Range: Not Intentional

    I don't see any consistency issue. The two times when the Unburied hit you, even when you moved away was when they used their 2 hit single-target attack. Attacks like this have a fairly large hit range after their animation starts, but they do have a maximum range. This was much more obvious in the zombie vs. WD video. In your video, this is the reason why only the first of the two hits landed on you both times.

    The slam attack of the Unburied is an AoE and all such effects can be dodged easily if you run out of their range, as you did multiple times. The problem I see with this attack is that the only time it hit you you were indeed in range, but behind a column, which means that it doesn't have a line of sight check.

    Bashiok or another CM only has to do one thing. Confirm that there's a maximum range from where single-target attacks can land and all is well and good if you ask me.


    Last edited by HardRock; 12-04-2012 at 23:30.

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