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  1. #1
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    Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Ive for a while been intrigued the passive:

    Gruesome Feast
    Whenever you are healed by a health globe, you gain 10% of your maximum Mana and 10% Intelligence for 10 seconds. The Intelligence bonus can stack up to 5 times.


    From a glance through the WD's skills, only the following 2 abilities can generate Health Orbs:
    Grasp of the Dead
    Death Is Life Enemies who die while in the area of Grasp of the Dead have a 5% chance to produce a health globe

    Summon Zombie Dogs
    Final Gift Your Zombie Dogs have a 15% chance to leave behind a health globe when they die.

    Which is not much compared to what the barbarian sports in orb creation, but thankfully the Witch Doctor is well equipped to make heavy use out of their zombie dogs.

    At a glance, it seems a sacrifice based build might be the best bet to generate extra health orbs, with skills and passives devoted to rapidly summoning and sacrifcing dogs, proccing more to constantly bring in new dogs to blow up for a constant stream of orbs to uphold the damage buff.

    I call this the Doggoneit build
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...VjR!daY!cYZZZZ

    Skill 1: Pllague of Toads - is for when low on mana or you just need to SPAM to kill large numbers of foes when nothing else is left, which is why I choose the Rune of toad affinity

    Skill 2 Zombie Charger runed with explosive beast is both for thematic reasons and to have a powerful nuke spell as a mana dump. Plus, who knows if the explosive dog might gain the ability to drop health orbs?

    Skill 3 Summon Zombie Dogs with final gift to have a chance to pop orbs on death

    Skill 4 Sacrifice, runed with next of kin to increase chance of dropping orbs

    Skill 5 Confusion runed with devolution to gives you a boost in explodable dogs for a short moment

    Skill 6 Hex runed with Jinx for extra damage and making your frequent sacrifices into truly apolcalyptic bursts.



  2. #2
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Thumb up! I like it



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member sacridoc's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Yeah, health globes have been paired with sacrifice basically. You can make builds without a focus on health globes, but it seems like using globes is the way to go. A major issue with the globes of course is how often they drop in Inferno. Also, whether the 50% intellect bonus is before or after Soul Harvest intellect is added.

    For example, you could use something close to this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#gZYVjd!YdT!abZZZY

    You would stack health globe healing / radius w/ high amounts of intellect in this build, in my opinion. It's still kind of up in the air which two abilities are best out of Mass Confusion / BBV / Soul Harvest. It depends on how they adjust intellect values in the late game and how often globes spawn. Also, I'm not sure which main nuke ability is going to be best because it's not really clear how much mana you'll have in the late game.

    CoL isn't really better than Grave Injustice or Zombie Handler, the only time it comes close to being better than ZH is when you're killing less than 0.33 enemies per second (20 per minute). Honestly I think it's an ability that's best used for builds that want pets but specifically leave out the summon skill to get other abilities. But maybe if Inferno enemies are super hard to kill it would actually be better than ZH.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member stonerdoom's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    After playing the beta, I too went looking for health globe skill buffs and being a WD fan immediately keyed in on Gruesome Feast.

    My latest WD projection is looking like this:

    Corpse Spider-leaping spider (medusa spider)
    Haunt-grasping spirit (draining spirit)
    Zombie Dog-leeching beast
    Hex-jinx
    Locusts-pestilence
    Gargantuan-restless giant

    Jungle Fortitude/Zombie Handler/Gruesome Feast

    If i can find a good damage weapon and have some mana bonus, this could be a decent/viable build. CC seems to be lacking. Medusa spiders could be introduced as an alternative for CC concurrently with draining spirit for mana regen.



  5. #5
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Quote Originally Posted by stonerdoom View Post
    After playing the beta, I too went looking for health globe skill buffs and being a WD fan immediately keyed in on Gruesome Feast.

    My latest WD projection is looking like this:

    Corpse Spider-leaping spider (medusa spider)
    Haunt-grasping spirit (draining spirit)
    Zombie Dog-leeching beast
    Hex-jinx
    Locusts-pestilence
    Gargantuan-restless giant

    Jungle Fortitude/Zombie Handler/Gruesome Feast

    If i can find a good damage weapon and have some mana bonus, this could be a decent/viable build. CC seems to be lacking. Medusa spiders could be introduced as an alternative for CC concurrently with draining spirit for mana regen.
    But if not having either of the health orb generating skills, is gruesome feast really realiable enough to have as one of your passives? Thats what im primarilly concerned about when looking at it, after all you need to stack the buff and keeping it rolling to make full use out of the passive.



  6. #6
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Does final gift proc from sacrifice? I would expect it does, but would be cool to get confirmation on that.

    Anyways i have given my WD build quite a bit though and this is where i currently stand:

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...djY!YdT!YcZYZZ

    It has few open questions like does devolution rune in MC cover the confusion from addling toads etc.

    As far as i'm concerned Grave injustice is superior choice when compared to circle of life. Consistent 1 second cooldown shave to MC and summon ZD out weights the small chance to summon additional zombie dog. As a added bonus grave injustice shares synergy with gruesome feast from the mana regen standpoint and if you get some extra pickup radius it also shares nice synergy there.

    Right now i got 2 question marks when it comes to that WD build. Would something like Zombie bears or charger be superior choice over corpse bomb? Mana shouldn't be a problem so you need a skill that can burn trough it. Another one is what to use as a signature spell if addling toads don't share synergy with devolution rune? Leaping spiders?


    Last edited by Karpalo; 19-04-2012 at 23:08.

  7. #7
    IncGamers Member sacridoc's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Final Gift should proc from sacrifice. I would expect that leeching beasts does not work with sacrifice, wouldn't make much sense. I don't think there's anyway that Addling Toads can spawn zombie dogs.

    If you look back in the sacrifice thread I went over why CoL isn't as good as GI. Basically, it's only equal to GI (in terms of dog summons) when you have only 1 summon skill and no ZH. That's not exact, but that's basically how it works. And GI + CoL (instead of ZH) will never be as good, and is made more awkward because of the different ranges for CoL and GI. Point being that (aside from early game) CoL isn't good with a full sacrifice build, and seems to work better as part of some kind of minion build with fetish sycophants maybe.

    That build is pretty good, but like I said, I don't think it's very likely that you can get dogs from addling toads. And I'm not sure that Addling Toads is good enough CC. Also, sacrifice builds are going to be fragile so using toads effectively might be difficult.

    You can do a few things really... either get BBV / Grasp in place of Acid Rain and get a new primary spell, or keep Addling Toads as your only CC and stick with Corpse Bomb. What I might do though is get rid of the toads and get Medusa Spiders or Numbing Dart instead of the toads. I don't think you'll have as much mana as you think since the idea isn't to get mana from items really, although we might have to in order to use grasp / BBV + high cost main attack. And Corpse Bomb is really expensive. The thing is though that none of the CC from the primary spells is very good.

    At this point I really favor builds that use Grasp of the Dead + 1 main attack. You can get BBV instead of Grasp and then perhaps get the Languish Rune for SH, but it seems like the snare would be too weak and also it requires you to be in melee range, plus it would be a mistake to use Languish on less than 5 enemies because you lose your SH buff. I mean I'm really hoping that we can get by without grasp because it would be more fun, but I don't have a lot of confidence. And I don't think that taking a Primary with CC on it is as good as using Grasp by any means. You could maybe get Black Blood on Sacrifice to get BBV, but Grasp just seems easier to use and not sure I want to lose Next of Kin.

    Anyways... the template looks like this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#.ZYVjd!YdT!.bZZZY

    And there's a bunch of things you can move around like I already said, but that's the template that makes the most sense to me atm. It's just a matter of which main attack you decide to go with. If you really want to use Corpse Bomb, you may have to get a primary. If not, I feel like grasp + corpse bomb is better than any primary + corpse bomb, but again you'll need enough mana to keep spamming Corpse Bomb.

    Perhaps a build like this is more likely?: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#biYVjd!YdT!YcZZZY
    Or this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aiYVjd!YdT!ZcZZZY

    It's not really much different than using the toads, but toads are more of a melee range skill which I think will be inefficient because you want to stay pretty far away with this build. So I would use the CC from either dart or spiders instead. And if you somehow have tons of mana, I would drop the primary altogether and use grasp.

    I don't know though... we might not even have enough mana to use anything besides spirit barrage if we're getting grasp w/o a primary, we'll just have to see what it's like.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member stonerdoom's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    Quote Originally Posted by LucianDK View Post
    But if not having either of the health orb generating skills, is gruesome feast really realiable enough to have as one of your passives? Thats what im primarilly concerned about when looking at it, after all you need to stack the buff and keeping it rolling to make full use out of the passive.
    This is a good point and obviously after the real game comes out we shall see quickly if it is not consistent enough to use one of our passives. I feel that Soul Harvest although more consistent, is more risky in higher difficulties. You need to be essentially in a mob to get 5 monsters to get the full bonus. In inferno, expect fast and hard hitting beasts I'm telling you. May have to go a whole other route for INT based bonuses. Invest now in GEMS!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by sacridoc View Post
    Final Gift should proc from sacrifice. I would expect that leeching beasts does not work with sacrifice, wouldn't make much sense. I don't think there's anyway that Addling Toads can spawn zombie dogs.

    If you look back in the sacrifice thread I went over why CoL isn't as good as GI. Basically, it's only equal to GI (in terms of dog summons) when you have only 1 summon skill and no ZH. That's not exact, but that's basically how it works. And GI + CoL (instead of ZH) will never be as good, and is made more awkward because of the different ranges for CoL and GI. Point being that (aside from early game) CoL isn't good with a full sacrifice build, and seems to work better as part of some kind of minion build with fetish sycophants maybe.

    That build is pretty good, but like I said, I don't think it's very likely that you can get dogs from addling toads. And I'm not sure that Addling Toads is good enough CC. Also, sacrifice builds are going to be fragile so using toads effectively might be difficult.

    You can do a few things really... either get BBV / Grasp in place of Acid Rain and get a new primary spell, or keep Addling Toads as your only CC and stick with Corpse Bomb. What I might do though is get rid of the toads and get Medusa Spiders or Numbing Dart instead of the toads. I don't think you'll have as much mana as you think since the idea isn't to get mana from items really, although we might have to in order to use grasp / BBV + high cost main attack. And Corpse Bomb is really expensive. The thing is though that none of the CC from the primary spells is very good.

    At this point I really favor builds that use Grasp of the Dead + 1 main attack. You can get BBV instead of Grasp and then perhaps get the Languish Rune for SH, but it seems like the snare would be too weak and also it requires you to be in melee range, plus it would be a mistake to use Languish on less than 5 enemies because you lose your SH buff. I mean I'm really hoping that we can get by without grasp because it would be more fun, but I don't have a lot of confidence. And I don't think that taking a Primary with CC on it is as good as using Grasp by any means. You could maybe get Black Blood on Sacrifice to get BBV, but Grasp just seems easier to use and not sure I want to lose Next of Kin.

    Anyways... the template looks like this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#.ZYVjd!YdT!.bZZZY

    And there's a bunch of things you can move around like I already said, but that's the template that makes the most sense to me atm. It's just a matter of which main attack you decide to go with. If you really want to use Corpse Bomb, you may have to get a primary. If not, I feel like grasp + corpse bomb is better than any primary + corpse bomb, but again you'll need enough mana to keep spamming Corpse Bomb.

    Perhaps a build like this is more likely?: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#biYVjd!YdT!YcZZZY
    Or this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aiYVjd!YdT!ZcZZZY

    It's not really much different than using the toads, but toads are more of a melee range skill which I think will be inefficient because you want to stay pretty far away with this build. So I would use the CC from either dart or spiders instead. And if you somehow have tons of mana, I would drop the primary altogether and use grasp.

    I don't know though... we might not even have enough mana to use anything besides spirit barrage if we're getting grasp w/o a primary, we'll just have to see what it's like.
    I too favor the GotD but it doesnt last long enough and then with the cooldown. Shoot, I'd be happy with it dealing no damage but having a wider catchment and lasting longer. In the beta using unbreakable grasp, rares trudge through it like a warm knife through butter. Imagine inferno when the monsters move 2x as fast.

    I've been messing with toads which i previously written off as lame, but that was hasty and foolish of me. Its not a perfect skills but may scale with difficulty nicely. There will be lots more experimenting to be done when the game comes out.



  9. #9
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    Re: Thoughts on health orbs and Gruesome Feast

    I don't think that GotD cd is too big of a problem as long you got Grave injustice in the build. Damage dealing might start to look bit more challenging tho. Anyways it's just 5% chance on enemies who die in the area to produce a health globe. Not sure if that alone justifies picking that skill up.



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