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  1. #51
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyBubbly View Post
    I think there are many issues when looking at D3 as a form of substantial income.
    1) the amount of substantial income is subjective. $1000 dollars in the US is a joke. However in countries like China that would be equivalent to the average worker making 3-4 times their monthly wage.
    This got me thinking, so let's try some real numbers instead of pulling figures outta our....

    According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_People's_Republic_of_Chin a, it seems that 3-4 times is actually way to low, but what does a chinese farmer actually get in wages? As per https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/dtcook/www...er/7-2/jin.htm, notice it is from 2006 tho, so the minimum wage will be higher today.

    So with those figures (the low end figure being bumped to 71.5 USD) we are looking at an average of 135,75 USD/month for a farmer(This being the average I'm including electricity, food, hosing etc in those numbers aswell of course), now if you look at how these shops are setup (Reference the above mentioned link) you have 2 persons working 12h shifts at the workstation, so we have an estimate of 271,5 USD/month or in order to make this a profitable venture you need to have each farmer produce 0,37 USD/Hour.

    Now the numbers from beta suggest it is at the very least possible to farm 20.000 gold/hour which would put the gold to USD price at 0.18 USD for 10.000 gold for break even scenario, let's just say 0.2 USD for the ease of calculating it , so in order to make 10 USD you would need to sell 500.000 gold (and that's without the blizzard and paypal cuts) or in beta terms 25h of farming. Now we don't know what the gold/hour ratio is going to be later, but for the first 24h after release, if you did nothing but farm farm farm for those 24h straight you'd end up with 10 USD, you could mow your neighbours lawn in 30min and make the same amount I figure

    With the amount of players, both "legit" and farmers, I assume the amount of gold coming into the system will be massive enough to keep the dollar price of gold near the break even point.

    But how much money can we expect to come into the system, we can't really say, but let's look at the numbers from the link before. So a somewhat big chinese workshop has 100 workstations, now again with the numbers suggested we are looking at 48.000.000 gold coming into the game from that shop each day. Now factor in multiple workshops and the normal players making more money than they spend repairs etc... Gold will never be in short supply and as such it will be at the price where the 100 man chinafarm is "just" making a profit, see they can't raise their price because there is just another 100 man china farm around the corner who will sell at the lower price.

    tl;dr
    Based on researched wages from china farms and beta gold/hour, price of gold will be around 0,2$ for 10.000 gold initially



  2. #52
    Clan Officer - US East Hardcore AlexanderBarin's Avatar
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlil View Post
    omg, all the doom say'ers and negativity I read on this thread.
    Come on people, be a little optismistic. No one knows how much or little items or gold will sell for until the game is live.

    I think people will make a decent amount each month playing 16hrs solid if they are smart about there play,
    game systems and the AH.

    Farming like a boss ftw/
    More positive comments and attitudes plz
    I am confident that I'll make alot more than $1000, or at maybe less, but far more efficiently.

    The optimistic claims aren't what I or others are arguing about. We're arguing that OP is full of sh-t.



  3. #53
    IncGamers Member FizzyBubbly's Avatar
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    In response to gamingbinary. I was refering to median workers wage not a farmers wage that mostly live in absolute poverty. Also in your calculations you need to take into account profit % of the farm houses in regards to minimum gold sell value. Most need to make 50-100% profit in addition to cover running costs and wages. These companies consider thwir minimum profit the B/E, they will not pay their workers if it comes between that and profit This must also consider the transaction fees from point of sale to deposit of funds which is an additional 20-30%+. Sorry for the lack of quantitative analysis but I'm writing from my phone. I'm looking to make a large #s based write up later tn.

    Edit: wording


    Last edited by FizzyBubbly; 10-04-2012 at 23:01.

  4. #54
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    The reason I'm saying people won't spend money on items early on is the same reason why people won't buy iPhone 4.7 when they know iPhone 5 will be released next week and cost almost the same or maybe even be given out for free, and why apple won't release iPhone 4.7 in such a way. And that's not even counting the people who would never buy anything with an apple on it since it costs a lot more and gives you a lot less value

    When you know that in very little time you'll be 5 levels higher and able to find better drops, and other people will be many levels higher and try to get rid of their stuff even more religiously, you won't hurry to spend real money on items for your current level even if you're having a bit of a hard time or feel it's going a bit slowly.




  5. #55
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
    The reason I'm saying people won't spend money on items early on is the same reason why people won't buy iPhone 4.7 when they know iPhone 5 will be released next week and cost almost the same or maybe even be given out for free, and why apple won't release iPhone 4.7 in such a way. And that's not even counting the people who would never buy anything with an apple on it since it costs a lot more and gives you a lot less value

    When you know that in very little time you'll be 5 levels higher and able to find better drops, and other people will be many levels higher and try to get rid of their stuff even more religiously, you won't hurry to spend real money on items for your current level even if you're having a bit of a hard time or feel it's going a bit slowly.
    That is all mindless speculation, you don't know what people will do. No one does until we see activity on markets.
    Hold your judgement until we have some facts to base such statments on.



  6. #56
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Heres a fact: summer break starts just after release. What remains to be seen is whether the parents who buy their children top end systems also give lavish allowances... or whether there will just be swarms of bad, immature players driving away the casuals (aka the market).

    Mordekaiser est numer one !HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE




  7. #57
    IncGamers Member FizzyBubbly's Avatar
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
    The reason I'm saying people won't spend money on items early on is the same reason why people won't buy iPhone 4.7 when they know iPhone 5 will be released next week and cost almost the same or maybe even be given out for free, and why apple won't release iPhone 4.7 in such a way. And that's not even counting the people who would never buy anything with an apple on it since it costs a lot more and gives you a lot less value

    When you know that in very little time you'll be 5 levels higher and able to find better drops, and other people will be many levels higher and try to get rid of their stuff even more religiously, you won't hurry to spend real money on items for your current level even if you're having a bit of a hard time or feel it's going a bit slowly.

    Your speculation is based on your own feelings rather then observation of the natural progression of market development. Your Iphone example is in my opinion very misguided

    The example states that people will not buy the current iteration of Iphone when they believe the next Iphone will be out shortly. Yet the issue is completely based on a subjective and relative experience...Time and Money... What is a short time between releases? 6 months? 3 months? 2 months? How much is a lot of money for a computer/music player/camera/video camera/portable storage device/video game device? 300? 500? 600? This is all relative to the purchasing public and therefore what you believe as the answers to these questions may be drastically different then the general masses.

    By your state there should have been no sales of the prior iterations of Iphones because the next version was always due "relatively soon", Do I really have to post a chart depicting Iphone sales increasing generation over generation while also retaining sales of older generations???

    Your second statement tries to reiterate your ideas in relation to diablo3. Yet again this thinking would give reason to believe that no one would EVER buy items before the level cap (the final iteration so to speak) because they "know" the next "better" item is just a mob kill away. We all know this is not the case.

    To make myself clear I am not saying that level 4 +exp items will be selling like crazy on the RMAH but you regard USD and Gold as different entities when now they are the same with differentiating values. EVERY SINGLE ITEM IN THE GAME IS WORTH SOME AMOUNT OF REAL CURRENCY BECAUSE OF THIS RELATION OF GOLD/USD$. If someone buys a 10000g item in the GAH they have spent the real currency equivalent since they could have potentially exchanged that gold for USD$ (not regarding fees since it is not relevant to conversation)

    In the first 1/3rd of the level range there may be very little demand for items (yet notice there still is demand) yet once the experience and difficulty curve begins to increase around lvl 20 you will see demand rise and this will all occur within the first hours of the first day.

    I think your beliefs are more along the lines of many people that are more serious about their game play in which they don't see the need or can't understand why people would make choices that you would deem inferior except this happens every single day on the internet and in our daily lives. You may never buy a skin when playing league of legends yet millions of others have, You may never buy gold in WoW because you deem it moronic yet millions of "morons" have. You may also think that no one will buy a level 24 Chest +8 exp per kill/ +3 random properties but many will.

    Please do not take my rebuttals to your statements as personal attacks they are mere attempts to more deeply understand and examine the idea and produce a conclusion.



  8. #58
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyBubbly View Post
    Your speculation is based on your own feelings rather then observation of the natural progression of market development. Your Iphone example is in my opinion very misguided

    The example states that people will not buy the current iteration of Iphone when they believe the next Iphone will be out shortly. Yet the issue is completely based on a subjective and relative experience...Time and Money... What is a short time between releases? 6 months? 3 months? 2 months? How much is a lot of money for a computer/music player/camera/video camera/portable storage device/video game device? 300? 500? 600? This is all relative to the purchasing public and therefore what you believe as the answers to these questions may be drastically different then the general masses.

    By your state there should have been no sales of the prior iterations of Iphones because the next version was always due "relatively soon", Do I really have to post a chart depicting Iphone sales increasing generation over generation while also retaining sales of older generations???

    Your second statement tries to reiterate your ideas in relation to diablo3. Yet again this thinking would give reason to believe that no one would EVER buy items before the level cap (the final iteration so to speak) because they "know" the next "better" item is just a mob kill away. We all know this is not the case.

    To make myself clear I am not saying that level 4 +exp items will be selling like crazy on the RMAH but you regard USD and Gold as different entities when now they are the same with differentiating values. EVERY SINGLE ITEM IN THE GAME IS WORTH SOME AMOUNT OF REAL CURRENCY BECAUSE OF THIS RELATION OF GOLD/USD$. If someone buys a 10000g item in the GAH they have spent the real currency equivalent since they could have potentially exchanged that gold for USD$ (not regarding fees since it is not relevant to conversation)

    In the first 1/3rd of the level range there may be very little demand for items (yet notice there still is demand) yet once the experience and difficulty curve begins to increase around lvl 20 you will see demand rise and this will all occur within the first hours of the first day.

    I think your beliefs are more along the lines of many people that are more serious about their game play in which they don't see the need or can't understand why people would make choices that you would deem inferior except this happens every single day on the internet and in our daily lives. You may never buy a skin when playing league of legends yet millions of others have, You may never buy gold in WoW because you deem it moronic yet millions of "morons" have. You may also think that no one will buy a level 24 Chest +8 exp per kill/ +3 random properties but many will.

    Please do not take my rebuttals to your statements as personal attacks they are mere attempts to more deeply understand and examine the idea and produce a conclusion.
    lol owned xD



  9. #59
    IncGamers Member FizzyBubbly's Avatar
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    So let's look at the OP and really break it down. Now I know it is full of speculation regarding numbers and contains a majority of fluff yet lets study it for its basic principals and see if there is anything useful.

    What if I told you that I was going to make $1000 in the first month of playing Diablo 3? Would you believe me? What if I told you in the next breadth that I was going to show you exactly how I plan on doing it? Stick around, because this post is going to blow you away.
    It's Finally Time to Dominate the RMAH!
    I've analyzed every aspect of the game, questioned as many players as possible, and combed through the beta for countless hours. The time has finally come to share with you a massive post (1387 words) that's going to guide you through making money in the first crucial month of playing Diablo 3. This post is the ultimate guide to the real money auction house, and it's free to boot, so what's not to love?
    ^^^PURE FLUFF^^^

    Easy, Fun, AND Profitable?!

    The primary thought behind this guide is that you can do all the instructions without breaking up your "fun" time while playing the game. It won't take long to post your items and you're just going to collect most of them naturally while playing (unless instructed to buy some). This is a guide to enjoying the game during the first month while still taking advantage of some insane money making opportunities. You'll always be leveling and positioning yourself naturally for the next big chance to earn some cash playing Diablo 3.
    This should have been the first paragraph. It describes the way most people should approach D3 if they are looking to make something on the side yet still understand the value of it being a great game. The last sentence is a little FLUFFY though..

    Keep in mind that a lot of the following advice is meant to be absurdly simple and easy to follow. The reasoning and decision making behind why this advice will work is far more than it appears to be. This was done on purpose, and if you want to debate any part of the article, feel free to add a comment to this post.
    KISS = Keep It Simple Stu**d, basics are always appreciated.

    Main Goals for Day 1:

    Sell Gold
    Save Gold
    Sell Items from Bosses
    $100 in Sales

    Taking the Easy Way Out

    Some people will want gear early on so that the leveling process is faster. I know lots of players that bought rare quality items as low as level 3 in order to one shot their enemies and get out of the starting area faster. Since crafting will probably be way too expensive at this point in the game, and no one has gold to buy anything anyway, your best bet is to sell the random rare loot you find on bosses early on. You have like a 100% chance of finding rare loot solo the first time you kill a boss or mini-boss, so odds are you will find a few valuable pieces on the first day no matter what. Sell them on the RMAH for a quick profit.
    -OP illustrates demand for lower level items with specifically +EXP which I agree with

    -Crafting is way too expensive??? No one has gold to buy anything??? how will people buy that rare you are suggesting? Too much contradictory statements just simply say sell your early rares to maximize auction slots available and gold/usd earned while playing.

    -Sell on the RMAH? You cannot automatically post your rare on the AH, selling something on the RMAH for anything less then $2.82 will leave you with almost nothing when both blizzard and paypal fees are taken into account.

    Selling The Precious Metal

    Gold is the big ticket item to sell however, especially when everyone starts off with none. People will pay insane amounts of money throughout the first couple of days, until the rapid accumulation of gold and competition begins to drive down prices. I'm sure that some people will pay as much as $20 for 1,000 gold initially, and then eventually everyone will be making a few thousand gold with each play-through, so gold won't be nearly that valuable. But on day one, the sky is the limit. Whatever gold you make on that first gaming session, just sell it for as much as you can and stop every hour or so to repost more gold.
    -Selling Gold can be profitable early on while market supply is still not overly saturated while the natural game progression promotes continual demand for gold.
    -1000g/USD will have high value early on before the market stabalizes. Yet $20/1000 is FLUFF, If you post 1000g for 20$ the market will react very quickly with people trying to undersell you and the price will quickly stabilize leaving your order of 1000g at 20$ in the order book till it expires. Even in beta where BB have no intrinsic value because it has been given to players for nothing they still do not spend it so frivolously.

    A Penny Saved...

    To sell as much gold as possible you need to also focus on saving everyone's precious commodity. For example, buying more shared stash space is a waste at this point in the game, as you don't need much storage space and have 9 free characters with huge empty inventories waiting to be used. Just move stuff into an alt character for now while you level your main. There's really no reason to waste 10,000 gold upgrading your shared stash! For the artisan, no one is going to really be all that interested in buying gear, besides high quality rares, early on in the leveling process. It would be a huge gamble to level your artisan and not sell gold, especially with how many more players will buy gold than gear on the first day. The profit margin on gold will be too great and crafting will most likely not be worth it. Save gold by avoiding your artisans at all costs!
    -Makes a very good point illustrating that paying more gold for an extra stash bar when you have 9 full character inventories to access is a waste.

    -Selling gold to the RMAH will again have to be based on the Amount you sell your lot for. Since you are looking to extract the gold as currency to your paypal account you should evaluate the fees before making any sale. for example a sale of gold = to 10$ will leave you with 8.20 in your paypal equivalent to 18% in fees taken, yet a sale of gold = to $40 will leave you with 34.72$ equivalent to 13.2% in fees taken. The point is to try and sell the largest lots of gold possible for the lowest fee margin, selling smaller lots often will just eat away at potential profit.

    Main Goals for the First Weekend:

    Sell Materials (including gems)
    Sell Rares from Bosses
    $200 in Sales

    If It's Working, Why Stop?

    You should continue to sell rares from bosses that you out-level or don't need. They will sell for a pretty penny early on. Don't sell them for gold, because remember, nobody has enough gold to spend on big purchases this early on.

    You will, however, want to sell materials for gold. I just told you not to sell items for gold, but it's time to break that rule with materials. Since materials will cost very little gold, most people will be unwilling to spend real money on them. Depending on fees and whatnot, most players probably won't even want to sell them due to a lack of profitability on the RMAH! Therefore, I recommend selling your materials for gold and then selling the gold for money. Never, ever leave a magic item un-salvaged, as it's worth a lot more in material form.
    -Sell all rares on RMAH?? No. some rares wont be worth selling on RMAH also before selling for gold check its salvage value to see if its worth more broken down.
    -The idea that no one has enough gold to buy anything is . If market price is to high in relation to supply and demand then simple economics dictate that price will fall in an attempt to reach equilibrium. In many cases this will happen very quickly. To say that after after 3 days of Diablo 3 being live people still wont have gold is misinformed.

    -How is a magic Item always worth more salvaged? this is complete conjecture, Also materials are sold on a %fee basis which you can sell in lots as large as you want. Why sell your mats on the GAH for 15% fee then sell the Gold for an additional 15% fee+Paypal fee when you can stock up 200-400 pieces and sell the lot directly on the RMAH? As a commodity like gold there will always be demand for these items and this demand will translate across both GAH and RMAH.

    Close only Counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades!

    Timing is important, and you'll want to post your materials when the majority of players are coming online (or before hand and price above the current going rate when you do post). Once these players come online for the weekend, expect the price of materials to skyrocket. So don't use the price just before this point to determine the cost of your own auctions! Instead, factor in the soon to rise prices beforehand when posting your auctions.

    You should have a nice stockpile of collected materials just from leveling, but in case you do not, spend some time farming for an hour or so. The profits you make will be well worth this small investment in time. Knowing where to farm is the key to avoid wasting time and getting back to leveling your own character.
    - OP is trying to state that it is important to understand when the peak hours are on your server, these times of greater usage will increase demand while supply is left to catch up in turn giving rise to prices. If there are 3 Axes of kickbutt on the RMAH and you know that there is enough demand to purchase 12 then you can safely post your Axe of kickbutt at a median price without fear of it not selling. Undercutting isn't always necessary when demand is high.
    - Not mentioned but you should time your actions so that they end during the middle of peak hours to generate as much competition between as many bidders as possible before the auction ends
    - If you see a pattern of a specific material or gold prices rising at certain times it would always be worth having that supply ready to meet the rising prices.

    Main Goals for End of Month One:

    Upgrade Artisans (Jeweler and Blacksmith)
    Sell Crafted Gear
    Sell Gems
    Identify Barriers to Entry
    $700 in Sales

    Playing with Big Bucks Now

    At this point, you've accumulated a small fortune of gold and real money. For example, I plan on having $1000 worth of net value by the end of the first month. Now you can start reinvesting by buying materials for far cheaper than they sold when you were the one selling them. Take those materials (including low level gems) and start crafting with your artisans. You can even buy gold for cheaper than you sold it previously, though I think you'll have enough to not have to worry about needing to buy more. If you craft what players want, then you'll make a fortune as most will still be leveling their artisans and unwilling to invest in creating gear for other players.
    -Some beginning FLUFF

    -If you decide to level your artisans and it coincides with the main population doing the same you are better off to just continue selling mats. However the crafting system is meant to function as a gold sink meaning you should take out less then you put in. With this in mind it may not be the best route to take.

    -Creating Gear for players using their materials for a tip could eventually pay off the initial investment of getting those higher end artisan items but it would require a huge amount of transactions. Over several years this may pay off but not a money maker in the beginning

    Time is Money

    With regards to buying materials for cheap, there will definitely be several times during the week (and weekends) where materials drop in value, before quickly rising back up again. Knowing these points in time will give you a huge advantage over your fellow crafters and make you more money even on items which other crafters cannot afford to sell.

    Challenges Send Players to the RMAH

    Something you'll want to consider when crafting is the kinds of items players need simply because they are stuck. Nothing drives a player more insane than knowing that they need better gear in order to proceed. By identifying the "choke points" or "barriers" in the game, you will better be able to craft the items players are willing to spend lots of gold and real money on.

    We've Just Scratched the Surface

    I've given you enough advice to make a decent profit from Diablo 3, and you should at the very least cover the cost of the game's purchase.
    -As important as it is to know peak hours it is also important to know times of peak supply this allows you to either buy materials to lower the cost of your crafting or to sell later for a greater profit margin.
    -If you're going to craft it's important to know what crafted items are in most demand, the items that help the masses surpass choke points in the difficulty of the game like between inferno act 1 and inferno act 3 will generate the most consistent profit.


    FINAL CONCLUSION

    Although the're are many points where the OP has written in a very FLUFF oriented style there is still good basic information when we try and look through the FLUFF and egregious over estimates. Will we be able to make $1000 in the first month playing 4-5 hrs a day? Who know's.. Will we however be able to use the basic tips found in behind the FLUFF to make better choices in regards to making some cash? I believe so.

    PS:10 points to the people that read the whole post!

    Edit: Fixed Miscalculated RMAH fees + Paypal


    Last edited by FizzyBubbly; 11-04-2012 at 05:35.

  10. #60
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    Re: How I plan on making $1000 in the first month

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyBubbly View Post
    for example a sale of gold = to 10$ will leave you with 6.80
    How did you come up with that number? I still haven't seen any firm release numbers from Blizzard on paypal costs and I don't think we can say with any certainty that the beta fee's will be translated directly to dollars (although they might do).



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