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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpalo View Post
    That concept is wrong. IAS scales linearly. 2-hander or DW, value it has on the final absolute DPS is the same.
    Calm down there cowboy, you've missed the bigger picture!

    I'm not sure if you meant my post, or the concept as a whole so I'll answer to both! The post was made only to show that the Frenzy IAS isn't multiplicative as the Weapon IAS is, which many people seem to believe (many users on different forums have been under this assumption in the past from my experience).

    Secondly, there is nothing wrong with the concept, I was making the statement that Frenzy gets worse at later levels of gear due to the DW bonus watering it down. You seem to correlate this statement with my previously showing that Frenzy IAS is additive; they aren't directly related. You are correct that the IAS of Frenzy will always yield 75 additive IAS, which has a linear value, and I might not have been very clear about it in my posts. Because they stack additively, they'll always have a linear return, much like Strength, or Vitality / Armor for effective life.


    However, Frenzy is still watered down by the DW bonus, due to it faster reaching a breakpoint where Bash will deal more damage. This was the basis of my statement. This breakpoint arrives later without the DW bonus (ie 15% later). There is also resource gain differencies to take into account, but then we have to set a value for our fury, how much we need it and so forth, which is all relative to builds.

    The other half of the statement (later gear levels) is simply because I'm assuming we'll be having more than 0 IAS from gear at the later gear levels, so this then becomes relevant to keep in mind.



    I'll be writing a reply to that other post you made, since you've been very quick to hit the post button there as well! I'm all up for discussion and I would be the first in line in order to correct any mistakes I've made, but please don't pass off my posts as false if you can't show proof why.


    Edit:

    I looked through my post again, and I'm confused by your quote:

    "That concept is wrong. IAS scales linearly."

    The following was literally the second sentence in my post: "I've previously found that all IAS effects stack additively, except those found on the actual weapon."


    You do realize we weren't speaking about the implications of additive (ie linear) IAS there right? It was simply a trial of whether it was multiplicative or not.


    Last edited by Superstate; 05-04-2012 at 23:52.

  2. #12
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It just seems that people are drawing totally wrong conclusions about that math.



  3. #13
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpalo View Post
    It just seems that people are drawing totally wrong conclusions about that math.
    Yes, it is probable that I've confused a few people when I've thrown around terms here and there.



  4. #14
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    After taking information in from different sources, I decided I'd try to change my WW build a little bit. It's actually pretty much the same as every other WW build, but I add different things to help me stay alive. I'm planning on Inferno being much harder than most of the spin to win builds.

    I must say first, that I am not absolutely positive that I will run with a two hander. It'll depend on how WW interacts with it, since we don't really have much information on that. There's also questions about fury generation with my build, so skills may be swapped out to account for that.

    So, I am not going into huge detail. Just general information.

    I will run with the passive that gives +3 fury per hit passive for using Mighty Weapons. Then I will use the rune in WhirlWind that gives +1 fury per hit. Basically, this should allow me to keep WW up as much as possible considering that I'll get +4 fury per hit. Depending on the numbers, we could hit as much as three or four times per second (I guess depending on AS) -- so, I should generate at least 12-16 Fury per second. If it costs 16 fury to run WW, I should be able to keep it up damn near as long as I need.

    I have Cleave in my build as well, but if it turns out that I don't need much fury regen, I'll probably just get rid of that.

    I have Revenge with the fury gen and +10% max life. This will keep my health up, but if it turns out I don't need it as much, then I might switch the rune on it.

    I have two shouts. The one that reduces incoming damage and the one that gives armor to me and my team. I have invigorate which will increase my max health and give me health per second.

    My last skill was between WotB and Earthquake. I want WotB, but it'll depend on how much fury I regen with my build. Currently, I get it from my passive (mighty weapon), ww rune, revenge rune, and cleave if I need it. That should be a tonne of fury regren that could keep the buff up for awhile. If it doesn't work out that way, then I'll probably switch to earthquake and use the rune that cuts the fury cost and lowers the cooldown. then maybe use the passive that lowers the cooldown another 30 seconds. this would allow me to hit earthquake every minute and not cost fury. we unlock earthquake a lot earlier than WotB, so I'll probably see how I like the skill.

    Anyway, that's my basic build at the moment. I wanted a build that allowed me to use WW as much as possible, and I think the fury regren on this is the best that can be asked. I also needed some survivability and I think adding extra damage reduction (on top of the 30% innate reduction barb's already get) plus the extra armor buff will be amazing. Then I also have life leech, and health regren from various areas.

    The one thing I was considering changing was in War Cry I believe. Instead of the increase health by 10% and giving me ~300 health every second, I might switch to the one that increases resistances by 50%. I have a feeling that will be huge depending on the items that we can get for Hell and Inferno.



  5. #15
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It's a good build imthedan, it's close to my WW build if WMMW isn't nerfed come release. Wind Shear might be overkill for fury if WMMW isn't nerfed.


    On the topic of WW, I have a sneaking suspicion that it works as a channeled spell in that it has cycles, which means that the 110% wpn dmg is spread out over all attacks in one cycle. The reason I believe so is simply because if it isn't, it becomes very powerful otherwise. If you have watched the WW skill video you'll see that WW still has the 3 aps previously datamined(?) attached to it, which means that if it isn't cyclic it deals 110% for each of those attacks. It's not difficult to realize that an attack dealing 330% wpn damage per second possibly infinitely kept up with WMMW, and AoE on top of that, is simply ridiculously overpowered.

    I find it much more balanced if it deals 110% base in one cycle, ie over those three attacks.

    It's either cyclic and/or WMMW is nerfed (probably both is required for balancing purposes).



  6. #16
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superstate View Post
    It's a good build imthedan, it's close to my WW build if WMMW isn't nerfed come release. Wind Shear might be overkill for fury if WMMW isn't nerfed.


    On the topic of WW, I have a sneaking suspicion that it works as a channeled spell in that it has cycles, which means that the 110% wpn dmg is spread out over all attacks in one cycle. The reason I believe so is simply because if it isn't, it becomes very powerful otherwise. If you have watched the WW skill video you'll see that WW still has the 3 aps previously datamined(?) attached to it, which means that if it isn't cyclic it deals 110% for each of those attacks. It's not difficult to realize that an attack dealing 330% wpn damage per second possibly infinitely kept up with WMMW, and AoE on top of that, is simply ridiculously overpowered.

    I find it much more balanced if it deals 110% base in one cycle, ie over those three attacks.

    It's either cyclic and/or WMMW is nerfed (probably both is required for balancing purposes).
    Yeah, very good points. I'm thinking it'll probably get nerfed to do 110% over a full cycle. They may even boost the damage a little to something like 125% or something for the whole cycle. The only problem I see is that Cleave does 120% (or something similar) and it does it per swing to everything in front of him. WW is supposed to be a spender, so technically, it should do more damage. If Cleave does 120% damage to 3+ with however many APS you get, then I don't know if WW is THAT overkill. 340% damage a sec is overkill, but 110% damage a sec is under powered in my opinion. They have to find a happy medium for it.



  7. #17
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It is a fair point, spenders are generally "weak" though. They are stronger than prim gens, but they've been very nerfed since the beta started (Crimson Hammer had ~380% wpn dmg right?). I guess just nerfing WMMW might be enough then. I'm tired.



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