Thoughts on the Revenge skill?

[Rokel]

The moment I realised how overpowered Revenge is was when I first saw it proc'd from ranged attacks / spells. I had always assumed for balance it was a melee only skill.

I don't generally play melee characters in games as I don't like being picked off from ranged enemies. I see this as a great way to counter that sort of incoming damage.

example : You're surrounded by mid level melee mobs taking hard spell damage over the top from a group of ranged casters - no problem snuggle up to those mobs and you're getting through them quicker and healing yourself. Win -Win

Provocation is the obviously overpowered rune choice, I can see it getting toned down a bit in the first few weeks of live if not before. I would use this skill in any and all Barb builds.

[starrise]

I can't imagine they'll never add a cooldown. Something on the order of 5 seconds might restore balance. Still, it will be a very useful skill.

[Creon]

As one of those looking to make a Whirlwind build, I still have every intention of getting Revenge. The real question for me is: Provocation, Best Served Cold, or Vengeance is Mine? BSC provides the best bonus to offense for Whirlwind, Vengeance is Mine is a great "oh crap!" button to save for when low on health, and Provocation basically makes Revenge always available in a fight.

[yovargas]

Any balance assessment that doesn't factor in that you must be hit 7 times (on average) to use this skill once is kinda missing the point, IMO. Consider how much faster you can deal out dmg with nearly every other Barb skill and "overpowered" claims become moot. 2 Cleaves, for example, do more dmg than Revenge, and can be done at all times. It's cool, but by no means a must have. (Doubling the proc rate with that rune might be a bit much, though.)

[Lucas S]

Yeah I still think that given its proc rate, the dps numbers of Revenge is nothing shout about. The real attraction is the self-heal, which may become invaluable in Inferno. Have to go work on my build again!

[yovargas]

Yes, the heal is amazing, but the DPS, while nice, is clearly minimal.

[Lucas S]

Some more thoughts on this skill, particularly Superstate's analysis.

1. If there is no safe way to macro Revenge, the utility of the skill in reality will inevitably be less than what it seems on paper. I don't think any reasonable player can cannot react quick enough every single time the skill activates in order to fully maximize the utility of the skill.

2. I can understand the heal to be amazing in a fight with a pack of champions/rares... your bulb will fill up pretty darn quick (pack of 5 = 30% heal). But in a boss fight (assuming no minions), the heal becomes less obvious, just a 6% heal per proc. Not exactly overpowered in that sense.

[Creon]

I never considered Revenge a must-have for the damage component. I'm going to test it with Provocation, Best Served Cold, and Vengeance is Mine to see which one provides the best combination of healing and offensive buff (+10% crit). That +10% critical strike rate can be maintained constantly with a 15% proc rate, which is a very nice addition to any build. I think I would rather have +10% crit all of the time than Wrath of the Berserker 15% of the time.

[HardRock]

Any balance assessment that doesn't factor in that you must be hit 7 times (on average) to use this skill once is kinda missing the point, IMO. Consider how much faster you can deal out dmg with nearly every other Barb skill and "overpowered" claims become moot. 2 Cleaves, for example, do more dmg than Revenge, and can be done at all times. It's cool, but by no means a must have. (Doubling the proc rate with that rune might be a bit much, though.)

Superstate was talking about one hit damage, not DPS. The DPS of Revenge is clearly not the best.

It's OPness comes from the fact, that against multiple enemies its an amazing and somewhat reliable heal, it still deals good damage, doesn't cost anything and doesn't have a cooldown.

[z00t]

Another advantage of Revenge is the fact that you can proc it multiple times in a short time. I don't think something like Rend stacks, so you don't get the full benefit of two Rends if you use one before the other has spent its full 3 seconds.

Revenge also deals its damage straight-up which is usually more valuable, and hits enemies all around you, unlike Cleave which would take multiple hits to accomplish the same effect.

That was a very good writeup by Superstate, but I'm still a fan of as much reliability as possible, although I'll probably take Revenge for a spin now and again ^^. I think it's a good skill - just not my style.