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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Such Violent Storms's Avatar
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    Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    I love the DH. The theme of the DH is really compelling to me; I like dealing phsyical, visceral damage like the Monk and Barb - hearkening back to D2's Amazon - and having a shadowy Assassin-like influence. But do both of these translate well to the current version of the DH?

    As the skills have changed and DH's resource system gone to the "spam x to use y" I'm starting to feel less cool. I remember having a build with the old Hatred resource and old actually awesome version of Shadow Power. I could see myself ripping through enemies with that.

    I feel like the current DH is a less special version of the Monk and Barb and ranged classes. The DH's agility factor seems useful in PvP, but in that respect it is a reflection of what the Monk has already cemented. The DH's shadowy fury is similarly a reflection of what the Barb has already established, and the flashiness of skills supposedly infused with dark magic seem much less pronounced than the Barb's, Monk's, or Wizard's. I just feel disappointed playing the DH. I don't think the current resource system fits a true DH's playstyle; the satisfaction of actively being a Demon Hunter is diminished when the "generator" skills you're using feel so disposable on a resource system that is already governed by the two melee classes. I feel the DH's generator system is a copout, and in turn the skills feel less meaningful.

    When I think of merging the Assassin and the Amazon with a D3 twist, I picture something fantastic in my mind. I've got this image in my head, yet I keep noticing that in all of the "first character" or "favorite character" polls the DH generally comes in dead last. I know, and hope, that it can be fixed.



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    It's lackluster only in the beta. Right now, she or he doesn't get any interesting skills on the low levels. I still like my DH for MF and GF purposes, since he's the most efficient out of all classes.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    I don't get it. You say you like the Demon Hunter because it's supposed to deal "physical visceral damage like the Barb and Monk." Then you say that it's bad that the Demon Hunter shares similarities to the Barb and Monk. What is "visceral physical damage"? And what is a "shadowy assassin-like influence"? You can tell me what it isn't all day, and I still won't get it.

    Edit: It has to do with the "disposability" of Hatred? How does that ruin being "visceral" and "shadowy"?




  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Such Violent Storms's Avatar
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintara View Post
    I don't get it.
    Okay. Hmm. I really don't know how to explain it any further. You're asking what visceral and shadowy mean, so the only thing I can think of is to direct you to a dictionary :( In your edit you mention Hatred being disposable, which I simply did not say. I said that, with the generator-spender system applied to the DH, your Hatred generator skills feel disposable; these generator skills that feel like they should have a cost, and could be increased in power with a cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardRock View Post
    It's lackluster only in the beta. Right now, she or he doesn't get any interesting skills on the low levels. I still like my DH for MF and GF purposes, since he's the most efficient out of all classes.
    I hope this is the case. As Xanath said in his most recent DH article:
    "zero deaths, zero close calls and zero fun."

    All of the DH just feels like I'm a Wizard spamming slightly different Magic Missiles that roughly resemble arrows.



  5. #5
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    Dunno I didnīt like the idea of demon hunter at first but was able to try it in beta and it actually came up as most interesting class to play for me in beta. Thou u dont get 2 many interesting abilities ( thou thats same for all classes) hunter has feeling that u actually have to play it instead of standing and clicking like monk



  6. #6
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Such Violent Storms View Post
    All of the DH just feels like I'm a Wizard spamming slightly different Magic Missiles that roughly resemble arrows.
    That's exactly what it is. But to be fair, any ranged character in a game like this is gonna feel like that.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member z00t's Avatar
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    Personally, I feel like the DH's Hatred-generator skills have a cost.

    It'll be more pronounced later in the game, where monsters are tougher. Suddenly your Hatred regeneration will seem so much lower :P.

    The DH's dual resource is actually quite clever, I think. It's about the sum of its parts, rather than each of the two's individual components. The DH definitely has a 'tactical' vibe about her, and you get this from feeling cunning by laying out traps, and making smart use of her mobility/stealth skills.

    Although it's not really evident in the beta, you can begin to see how needing to balance hatred/discipline spending will play out later in the game, and it's cool because it makes the player feel all tactical and stuff like they're an elite marine or something - that's the fantasy that the DH provides that no other class does. The DH's skills really makes you feel like you're a frickin special forces agent :P.

    Let's face it, although the Barbarian has 'tactical' skills, they're still designed to convey the feeling of raw power as opposed to that 'elite, tactical' feeling.

    In many ways, I think of the DH as the connoisseur's class in D3. Most people will be attracted to a class like the Barbarian who fills the "SMASH STUFF, RAW POWER" fantasy (not that there's anything wrong with that - the Barb's probably my second-favourite class). I wish that the WD was as unpopular in the polls as the Demon Hunter :P. I always like playing as the least-played faction/class/whatever in games I play :P.



  8. #8
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    I think the problem with the Demon Hunter is that it requires too much tactical effort to perform on a level similar to the Barb and Wizard, which is very straightforward brutal smash-hit-kill classes and not needing to jump through a series of hoops to perform.

    The barb and wiz are overkill classes. Why wasting time on killing them one by one when you kill them all at once for less effort is what im asking?



  9. #9
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    My point is that I can't discuss the qualities of visceral and shadowy without knowing what could fulfill that paradigm for you because those don't translate well to me to a game concept. I can easily call the Demon Hunter shadowy and visceral, and I don't know why I couldn't. See the shadow-named stuff and the cloaks and the scattered viscera? What I don't understand is how your idea mismatches reality.

    You say that Hatred is too disposable, but that doesn't mean anything to me. "Spam X to use Y." Okay, how would making it less disposable work, and how would that heighten the experience? And what does something like the old version of Shadow Power actually bring to the table that you think they should move back to? Define for me the niche you want the Demon Hunter to be.

    Or maybe you're starting to think there should have only been four classes, and that the Demon Hunter isn't even positioned to likely satisfy your desires for a fifth unique play experience?




  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Such Violent Storms's Avatar
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    Re: Does the DH seem kind've.... lackluster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintara View Post
    You say that Hatred is too disposable
    Again, no, I'm not saying that. I literally spelled it out for you in my previous post ><

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintara View Post
    Or maybe you're starting to think there should have only been four classes, and that the Demon Hunter isn't even positioned to likely satisfy your desires for a fifth unique play experience?
    No.


    Quote Originally Posted by yovargas View Post
    That's exactly what it is. But to be fair, any ranged character in a game like this is gonna feel like that.
    To some extent, yeah... but at least the others have animations befitting the power of the character, ya know? On the DH, no matter what skill I use, the most impressive is Rapid Fire, and that's still just a colorful straight line. I don't feel like my arrows and bolts, heavy razor-sharp pylons of steel laced with demonic power, are impacting like a Barbarian's steel weapons, or a Monk's energy-infused strikes, or a Wizard's spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by z00t View Post
    Personally, I feel like the DH's Hatred-generator skills have a cost.

    It'll be more pronounced later in the game, where monsters are tougher. Suddenly your Hatred regeneration will seem so much lower :P.

    The DH's dual resource is actually quite clever, I think. It's about the sum of its parts, rather than each of the two's individual components. The DH definitely has a 'tactical' vibe about her, and you get this from feeling cunning by laying out traps, and making smart use of her mobility/stealth skills.
    But see, that's not a good way of giving skills a cost: making them less effective. That's not a cost that yields a feeling of power, that's a cost that does nothing but make them feel even worse. D:

    And yes, I agree; the DH's resource system stylistically is perfect for the DH -- and the system could be great functionally, but it isn't. I wish it was, because there's so much untrod ground with a dual-resource system. Few games have expanded beyond simply a mana pool and fury system, so there's lots of potential. I think that a revert back to the earlier Hatred/Discipline system and improvement upon that could make for a great resource system, and as a result more-awesome and versatile skills to follow.


    Last edited by Such Violent Storms; 31-03-2012 at 20:17. Reason: sp

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