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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member compubuy's Avatar
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    Next Delay Bug

    Does WW suffer from this bug? If not, how come? I thought it affected all skills that can damage monsters very quickly. And in the case of the fastest WW, it is 12.5 hits/second, yes? Second, which skills are affected by this bug so I know to avoid using them. Thanks for your help!




  2. #2
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    It isn't a bug.

    And WW isn't on a nextdelay, so no worries. If you want to know why not I suppose you'd have to ask the developers, but my guess is simply because it is tied to weapon speed. It doesn't need nextdelay to tell it when it is okay to do damage, it just does a hit every time it is supposed to based on the weapon speed.

    Multishot needs nextdelay because you can push 20 arrows through one guy on a single shot, and nextdelay makes it only hit once. Whirlwind just picks a target within your range to hit every 4 frames (or whatever speed attack you have), so there's no need for the nextdelay mechanic.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member compubuy's Avatar
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Hmmm, but isn't strafe affected by next delay, and it hits fewer times/second than the fastest WW does. I still don't get it. Thanks for response though.




  4. #4
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    For a list of Next-Delay affected skills: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/NextDelay

    As for the "why" some skills are penalized and others aren't, I have no idea. I suspect that in some cases (like the multi-shot that magic rectangle mentioned) some testing lead to it being implemented - and in some cases it was somewhat arbitrarily assigned by the game designers/developers (example: BattleCry). It is possible that it's a relic of a mechanism to help ensure certain calculations had adequate time to complete (especially in the early-D2-days when computer processors were much more wimpy).

    That's all speculation though.



  5. #5
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingBoor View Post
    and in some cases it was somewhat arbitrarily assigned by the game designers/developers (example: BattleCry).
    Actually I don't think warcry and nova being on nextdelay is arbitrary at all, it is to prevent the same nova/warcry from dealing damage to a single enemy more than once. I think that's the entire intent of the nextdelay mechanic - to make sure a single ability doesn't get multiple bites at the same enemy.

    It isn't really a bad solution to the problem, except that they have multiple abilities/players tied into the same delay. If each player owned their own separate nextdelay it would solve the multiple hits problem without making some abilities dramatically worse in 8 player games - but what can you do, Diablo 2 is a really freaking old game.


    Last edited by magicrectangle; 22-03-2012 at 06:36.

  6. #6
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by compubuy View Post
    Hmmm, but isn't strafe affected by next delay, and it hits fewer times/second than the fastest WW does.
    That doesn't mean that it's a bug. It's for balancing.

    Strafe is meant to distribute on several enemies, but if there's jutst one enemy, all missiles would be sent to there, so reaching the 2 frames breakpoint for subsequent missiles would mean a damage boost by 50%. It's similar with WW, of course, but the step from 5 frames WW to 4 is just 25% and it's far more dangerous to be in melee range than at a distance, so it has no nextdelay value.



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  7. #7
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    That doesn't mean that it's a bug. It's for balancing.

    Strafe is meant to distribute on several enemies, but if there's jutst one enemy, all missiles would be sent to there, so reaching the 2 frames breakpoint for subsequent missiles would mean a damage boost by 50%. It's similar with WW, of course, but the step from 5 frames WW to 4 is just 25% and it's far more dangerous to be in melee range than at a distance, so it has no nextdelay value.
    The 2 frame strafe breakpoint is a display bug, server-side it still fires at 3 frames. If you actually have enough IAS to hit the 2 frame breakpoint you don't do any more damage, but you do get desyncing problems because the client thinks you're at 2 frames, but the server still has you at 3.

    I'm pretty sure the nextdelay on strafe is there to stop arrows that pierce the enemy from hitting the same enemy a second time. However, as a result, 3 frame strafe is essentially limited to 6 frames against bosses (or single targets in general) which is kind of lame, it isn't like strafe is particularly strong against bosses, it wouldn't be overpowered to let it hit the boss every 3 frames. It is the piercing thing that is a problem, having the same arrow hit the boss 2 or 3 or 4 times.



  8. #8
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    Actually I don't think warcry and nova being on nextdelay is arbitrary at all...
    I never said anything about War Cry. Your points make sense in that case, but for Battle Cry... not so much.



  9. #9
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingBoor View Post
    I never said anything about War Cry. Your points make sense in that case, but for Battle Cry... not so much.
    SSDD. It doesn't do damage, but you still don't want a debuff being applied a whole bunch of times in a row either, it is a waste of resources, if nothing else.



  10. #10
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Next Delay Bug

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    I'm pretty sure the nextdelay on strafe is there to stop arrows that pierce the enemy from hitting the same enemy a second time. However, as a result, 3 frame strafe is essentially limited to 6 frames against bosses (or single targets in general) which is kind of lame, it isn't like strafe is particularly strong against bosses, it wouldn't be overpowered to let it hit the boss every 3 frames. It is the piercing thing that is a problem, having the same arrow hit the boss 2 or 3 or 4 times.
    It's still a balancing element. A strafer needs only 35 skill points to be complete (20 more if you max valk, another 19 for penetrate in case she doesn't use Faith). It makes sense to make strafe weaker versus single enemies, so she will have to invest into a different skill as well. However, A 1 point investment in GA is enough against e.g. hell Diablo (although it needs drinking a mana potion), I'm doing that all the time with my strafer. She's actually a strafe/LF/CS hybrid, but she never had to use CS or LF so far. CS isn't maxed yet and her gear isn't optimized for java skills, so she probably isn't that good at it, but something has to be done with all the skill points . For my previous strafer I invested into GA, but doing that just for not having to drink a mana potion versus Diablo is a bit of a waste of skill points.



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