Grief damage evidence

[voyaging]

I'm having a quarrel with a friend about how Grief damage is applied. I know there are calculations all over the place, but where is the empirical testing done to prove that Grief damage is applied in that way (for example that ED% affects the damage and then that DS affects the resulting damage). Where do the formulas come from?

[Krupa]

take a grief, put it on a paladin and smite a monster till death while you count the hits it takes.
look in the wiki for the life of the monster and you have your proof of how much damage you did on average per hit.
while u smite the monster look for the small white flash that means DS just went off, you should notice, if u smite slowly, that this smite in particular did double damage compared to others.
with the right equipment there will only be a small variation from min to max damage. for this you should have no cb and use a natures peace ring to prevent monsters from healing

these tests have been done and iŽm sure if u dig on the amazon basin youŽll find the old threads

[krischan]

Take care that crushing blow or deadly strike doesn't spoil the test. That means, if you compare it with e.g. the Death runeword, wear as much CB gear with Grief as Death provides. Also, use a monster which needs more than just a few of hits to be killed, to minimize randomness. You will notice that with Grief, there aren't many of them .

[magicrectangle]

Qualitatively, it is pretty obvious that grief damage is multiplied by your off-weapon enhanced damage, simply because of how amazingly badly it outclasses most other weapons. Grief wouldn't outclass ebotd zerker on a zealot if it didn't get multiplied by your off weapon enhanced damage, but it does outclass ebotdz, and very obviously so.

Quantitatively, the tests have been done, but I'm too lazy to google up the results for you when you could just do so yourself.

[voyaging]

Qualitatively, it is pretty obvious that grief damage is multiplied by your off-weapon enhanced damage, simply because of how amazingly badly it outclasses most other weapons. Grief wouldn't outclass ebotd zerker on a zealot if it didn't get multiplied by your off weapon enhanced damage, but it does outclass ebotdz, and very obviously so.

Quantitatively, the tests have been done, but I'm too lazy to google up the results for you when you could just do so yourself.

His claim is that the +400 damage is applied to damage AFTER the PvP penaltry, so therefore a constant 400 damage in addition to whatever the rest of the hit is.

I have looked and haven't found anything, that's why I'm here.

[krischan]

The pvp reduction always comes at the very last. Even if it didn't, Grief's 400 wouldn't be boosted by off-weapon %ed which definitely comes before the pvp reduction and that would be even worse, as off-weapon %ed usually adds more to the Grief bonus than the pvp penalty deducts.

[voyaging]

The pvp reduction always comes at the very last. Even if it didn't, Grief's 400 wouldn't be boosted by off-weapon %ed which definitely comes before the pvp reduction and that would be even worse, as off-weapon %ed usually adds more to the Grief bonus than the pvp penalty deducts.

Well yeah, I agree, but that's what he's arguing against. A friend of mine will be doing testing tonight or tomorrow.

[onderduiker]

take a grief, put it on a paladin and smite a monster till death while you count the hits it takes.
look in the wiki for the life of the monster and you have your proof of how much damage you did on average per hit.
while u smite the monster look for the small white flash that means DS just went off, you should notice, if u smite slowly, that this smite in particular did double damage compared to others.

The wiki will only be accurate for monsters in Normal and boss monsters in any difficulty level, and Deadly Strike does not apply to Smite.

His claim is that the +400 damage is applied to damage AFTER the PvP penaltry, so therefore a constant 400 damage in addition to whatever the rest of the hit is.

So is he claiming that off-weapon +% Damage does not apply to the Grief rune word's Damage +(340-400), but that it appears to do so because the PvP penalty (17%) does not apply to it either (since unmodified Damage +(340-400) would be equivalent to Damage +(340-400) modified by +500% Damage ( +(2,040-2,400) ) then the PvP penalty ( +(347-408) ) ?

I can understand how someone who existed purely in the PvP arena could come to this conclusion (particularly since any weapon +% Enhanced Damage doesn't apply to Damage +, which may be the source of the confusion and compounded by the usual suspect, the character screen), but it's pretty clear both in the field and in more controlled tests against monsters (no damage penalty for players) that off-weapon +% Damage does apply to Damage +, as does Deadly Strike (at least when it's applied by the attack being used).

It would be extremely strange to code an entirely different damage application order in PvP, but if your friend remains unconvinced then maybe your tests will resolve the issue.

[Karth]

It was a nicely-done troll attempt, much helped by people who (spontaneously? by plan?) supported the troll with anecdotal 'evidence.'