blizz sorc

[HardRock]

In D3 DoTs are defined by these properties at the moment:

1) They can't crit.

2) They display their damage in fixed intervals, which is currently 0.5 second.

3) They deal continuous damage.

4) They don't stack with themselves (except in multiplayer).

Disintegrate and Ray of Frost are basically channeled DoTs. Arcane Torrent is not DoT, since it fires projectiles.

We don't know if Blizzard is a DoT or not.

When I tried it in the emulator it didn't seem to damage every target in its range, so I'm partial to saying that it's not a DoT. This means that its mechanics are similar to Arcane Torrent.

[ElementEight]

In D3 DoTs are defined by these properties at the moment:

1) They can't crit.

2) They display their damage in fixed intervals, which is currently 0.5 second.

3) They deal continuous damage.

4) They don't stack with themselves (except in multiplayer).

Disintegrate and Ray of Frost are basically channeled DoTs. Arcane Torrent is not DoT, since it fires projectiles.

We don't know if Blizzard is a DoT or not.

When I tried it in the emulator it didn't seem to damage every target in its range, so I'm partial to saying that it's not a DoT. This means that its mechanics are similar to Arcane Torrent.

I think that Disintegrate and RoF aren't dots. If you could somehow cast two of them simultaneously at the same target, they'd very likely stack unless stated otherwise (like Blizzard's tooltip).

I know that I keep going back to this, but hitting an opponent multiple times (as opposed to ticking) doesn't make something a DoT. Let's just look at the term DoT itself; Damage over Time. If you take something like Blizzard or Disintegrate, the factor isn't really time alone, but rather, space-time. Far fetched perhaps, but these skills can tick once or a billion times, depending on exposure, so at what point does the time factor become much less relevant than a foe's contact with your casts?

I'm saying this because vJASS coding something like Blizzard (even without the channeled variable of it) versus an AoE DoT is entirely different... due to the positionnal checks that need to be made for the former, versus the debuffs that must be implemented for the latter. Hence why I believe that a debuff is a necessary component to a DoT.

[HardRock]

I think that Disintegrate and RoF aren't dots. If you could somehow cast two of them simultaneously at the same target, they'd very likely stack unless stated otherwise (like Blizzard's tooltip).

But you can't cast two of them simultaneously (you can't do that with any spell, so that doesn't even make sense) and their damage behaves exactly like a DoT, so you can think of them as DoTs with variable durations.

I know that I keep going back to this, but hitting an opponent multiple times (as opposed to ticking) doesn't make something a DoT.

I agree, and I never said that the opposite is true. Also, ticking is absent in D3. Only damage numbers are presented as ticks, not the damage itself.

If you take something like Blizzard or Disintegrate, the factor isn't really time alone, but rather, space-time.

For some DoTs, position is a factor, for some it's not (Haunt). That's why you can't define a DoT by a position requirement.

[ElementEight]

But you can't cast two of them simultaneously (you can't do that with any spell, so that doesn't even make sense) and their damage behaves exactly like a DoT, so you can think of them as DoTs with variable durations.

Well, you technically use two Blizzards at once (their effect "staggers").

My example was if you could cast one Disintegrate, have it keep casting wherever you pointed, move an inch, and cast another one on top of it. They'd probably both tick against a same target, the sameway Blizz would if it hadn't specified otherwise (like it does in D2, or like Meteor's burning effect stacks, etc.).

I agree, and I never said that the opposite is true. Also, ticking is absent in D3. Only damage numbers are presented as ticks, not the damage itself.

I'm not sure I see what you mean. Ticking in my mind was just the space in-between two damaging instances of a particular effect over time.

For some DoTs, position is a factor, for some it's not (Haunt). That's why you can't define a DoT by a position requirement.

Right, I'm saying that the positional requirement is exactly what makes Blizzard -not- a DoT, as you, the player or even the foe, have control upon how many instances of damage you'll be taking by merely targeting on and off for the later, and moving properly for the latter.

It's interesting to see that the Guild Wars wiki actually includes the Firestorm skill as a damage over time skill. It behaves the most closely to Blizzard in D3.

Actually, upon closer inspection, they consider such skills a "ADoTs": Area damage over time (ADoT) skills are skills which inflict periodic damage in an area.

They do appear to agree with the idea that 1) there is a positional requirement and 2) there is not necessarily a debuff associated with such skills.

[mike20599]

Ray of Frost and Disintegrate can't crit?

[HardRock]

I'm not sure I see what you mean. Ticking in my mind was just the space in-between two damaging instances of a particular effect over time.

I mean that DoTs in D3 doesn't have delays between two damage ticks, the damage is continuous. DoTs basically deal damage by negating life regen and causing life degeneration.

Right, I'm saying that the positional requirement is exactly what makes Blizzard -not- a DoT, as you, the player or even the foe, have control upon how many instances of damage you'll be taking by merely targeting on and off for the later, and moving properly for the latter.

So a skill isn't a DoT, if it doesn't have a fixed duration, because a player can move out of its range? That doesn't seem right to me. Duration of an effect doesn't change what the effect fundamentally is.

It's interesting to see that the Guild Wars wiki actually includes the Firestorm skill as a damage over time skill. It behaves the most closely to Blizzard in D3.

I don't think it does. Like I said, when I tried Blizzard in the emulator it didn't behave anything like Firestorm does. If you move into Firestorm's range, you suffer a life degeneration, which you can't avoid. If you move through Blizzard, you may not suffer damage at all.

EDIT: I just remembered that Firestorm doesn't behave that way, it deals damage in ticks. It may be considered a DoT in GW, but no DoT behaves that way in D3. Also, Firestorm deals damage to everything in its range, but that may and most likely will not be the case for Blizzard.

Actually, upon closer inspection, they consider such skills a "ADoTs": Area damage over time (ADoT) skills are skills which inflict periodic damage in an area.

They do appear to agree with the idea that 1) there is a positional requirement and 2) there is not necessarily a debuff associated with such skills.

Target positioning becomes important for area DoTs, but area DoTs are a subtype of DoTs. I was talking about DoTs in general and all four of my points fit Ray of Frost and Disintegrate. If I include area in the definition, then Haunt wouldn't be classified as a DoT, which would be wrong.

Ray of Frost and Disintegrate can't crit?

Not at the moment, no.

[mike20599]

Did Ray of Frost crit in previous patches? Skills that don't crit are going to be very inferior in endgame. Maybe it's an oversight.

[HardRock]

Skills that deal continuous damage were never capable of critting as far as I know.

[ElementEight]

I
So a skill isn't a DoT, if it doesn't have a fixed duration, because a player can move out of its range? That doesn't seem right to me. Duration of an effect doesn't change what the effect fundamentally is.

Not exactly. If I cast Disintegrate on your face for half a second, we get one tick. It's more the fact that damage stops once a "physical condition" (ie: the person moves out of range, stands out of the fire...) comes into play. You could say that drowning is damage over time, or that it's, instead, repeated damage until you get some air.

[Elfik]

Hmm well you guys are just arguing over definitions at this point. I actually like Hardrock's definition, because it helps me as a player know which spells can't crit, can't stack with themselves, and deal continuous damage. I wish there was a better way of knowing this without checking for regular o.5s damage display intervals, but once it's known which skills are DoTs it's pretty quickly memorized. Of course you can categorize DoTs still further if you want to differentiate between the channeled ones and the non-channeled ones. I actually had no idea Rof and disintegrate couldn't crit.

Also, blizzard acting like arcane torrent? That's kind of odd, I always assumed blizzard would deal continuous damage. However, again, it makes sense with Blizzard not being a DoT how they would have to clarify whether or not it stacks with itself in the tooltip (alas, it doesn't). Unfortunately, blizzard gets weaker and weaker the more we learn about it...