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  1. #1
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    A few questions about Mercs

    On the unmentionable forum, someone said that Defiance aura is next to useless on an Act II Merc, giving something like 1-5% less chance to be hit. They claimed that the cth-formula is different with Mercs and Defiance doesn't really help them unless the Merc has like 100k def. I wonder if there's any truth to this claim? If there would be, it would probably be mentioned in guides that Defiance is useless, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

    Second question is about the +Life on Fortitude; they claimed that it doesn't work for Mercs even though it shows up on the LCS. This was in a thread where it was argued that Treachery is superior on Mercs (even damage-wise due to CB procs and greater attack speed); this third question would require substantial math and/or tests, but if someone knows whether indeed Treach beats Fort, it would be nice to know, too. This ofc ties in to the defense question in that if the added +def from is useless on Mercs, it makes Treachery that much better.

    Regards
    Greizer



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member hubb's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    I've never seen those two things mentioned here and wouldn't put too much faith in them unless there's a link to a reputable source or someone laying out how they tested it.

    There's a recent thread here which links to some math on the unmentionable site, but really all you need to know is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Greebo View Post
    ...the bottom line is that unless there's a Decrep, 'Fortitude' is better for damage. That'd be more true if the moron is not Might.
    If your merc's sole purpose it to proc Decrep or apply CB then Treachery is better, if it isn't then Fortitude is always going to result in more damage. The difference will obviously also depend on his base weapon speed, IAS and how much other ED he's getting from auras.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member mackscynox's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    chance-to-hit is a bit complex and it might be true that defiance merc only decrease hit chance about %5. imagine a necro with 300def and compare it to a 10k def paladin. of course defiance merc wont give much to necro's defense.

    i would never use treachery on my fanatic zealot's merc your character's auras (by self or items) also affect the gear on merc. you have to consider such things too.

    about life on fort, the guide here says it should work.



  4. #4
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    I meant the Merc's def; on characters Defiance works as it should. It was claimed that 8,5k more def results in a few percents less chance for monsters to hit the Merc. I've always seemed to notice that Defiance Mercs (with good armor ofc) are a lot more durable than other Mercs, which is why I'm doubting this claim.

    My Merc uses an Eth Reaper's Toll since I run Travi with him and need it for the Decrep against Physical Immunes. Fortitude has Chilling Armor on it and it shatters corpses, which is why I went with Treachery in the end. (Yes, I know that Reaper's has cold dmg too, but it's the only convenient way to kill physical immunes. The slow and added dmg is great against Councilors too.) Still, it would be nice to know if my Sorc's Merc (eth Thresher Infy + Andy's) should change his Fort to Treachery.

    I suppose one could test whether Fort gives life to Mercs or not - the Merc should die when the LCS says that he has the amount of life left that Fort gives. Ofc Mercs regen naturally so this is a bit tricky to test.

    EDIT: Confirmed, it works; the Merc had 40 life with Fort on according to the LCS, and he was alive and kicking. - Come to think of it, I wonder if he would have died if I took the Fort off when he had that little life? Or would he turn immortal with negative life (there's a bug with monsters that makes this happen sometimes iirc)? I'll go do another test.

    In any case, since all these claims were made by the same person, it puts the other two claims in a dubious light as well that one has been disproved.

    EDIT2: I give up, I've wasted 600k trying to snatch his Fort away at the last second. If such an exploit existed, it would be used all the time since the game is 10 years old. His hp will probably go to 1 if you do manage it, but it would still be nice to know. If someone else can bother to try it, report the results here please.


    Last edited by Greizer; 08-03-2012 at 20:39.

  5. #5
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    chance-to-hit is a bit complex and it might be true that defiance merc only decrease hit chance about %5. imagine a necro with 300def and compare it to a 10k def paladin. of course defiance merc wont give much to necro's defense.
    Actually, defiance is supposed to have much bigger effect on necro than on paladin.



  6. #6
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Lotus View Post
    Actually, defiance is supposed to have much bigger effect on necro than on paladin.
    word, or at least the same effect. The effect of increased defense diminishes as it gets higher



  7. #7
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    Well, maybe I am wrong with the definition of term "effect". Difference between 4k and 10k defense in pvm is insignificant, while 400 vs 1000 defense is a big deal.



  8. #8
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    but that is exactly what i thought you defined effect as in the first place?



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member hubb's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    Your numbers are way off but the principal is roughly right; a necro (or a merc without Fort/Shout) will gain relatively more since he has no other sources of enhanced defense and as said above the effect of increased defense diminishes as it gets higher.

    2k vs 7k (roughly what my novamancer would gain with Defiance) is big deal while the difference between 12k and 17k (my Berserk barb) makes for roundabout half as much relative improvement in the chance to avoid attacks. Depending on your skills (% enhanced defense) and gear (base defense) the numbers will vary a lot, but the gain due to Defiance will rarely be insignificant (unless you compare it to what you'd get from Might or HF).



  10. #10
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    Re: A few questions about Mercs

    I've done some research, I thought mobs have less AR than they actually do.
    So using your numbers and assuming minion of destruction has 7336 AR, cth will drop from 38% to 30% for barbarian, and from 79% to 51% for necromancer. Thats roughly 26% and 54% decrease in cth, respectively. This doesnt take levels into consideration, usually defense becomes less valuable as you "grow up".



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