Frenzy vs. Whirlwind (simple tests comparing killspeed) der=0>

**TheWorkingBoor** · 18-02-2012, 06:51

After reading through this thread - and particularly the "which does more damage" discussion later in the thread, I decided I wanted to form a more subjective opinion on my own. Fortunately with 1.13 adding respecs (and essences) to the game, that meant I could do it pretty easily without incorporating a bunch of editing, dupes or hacks (though I do use the SP mod for enabling ladder-only runewords).

Testing Details:
- level 89 barbarian
- single-player, /players8, full-clears
- resists for testing were maximized fire & lightning, about 50 for cold and poison
- each different setup/build did 3 complete runs to help normalize run times
- skillpoints were, for the most part, distributed towards maximum damage
- equipment stayed (pretty much) the exact same for Whirlwind & Frenzy (details explained in the individual tests)

Equipment:
2x Grief Phaseblades (low rolls)
Arreat's Face (AR/IAS jewel)
Highlords Wrath
Fortitude / Enigma
Laying of Hands
String of Ears
Goreriders
Ravenfrost
rare dual-leech/AR ring

Sharp/Fine/Steel/resists charms
Switch: Call to Arms + Heart of the Oak
Merc = Might aura (eth Reapers with IAS jewel, Vampire Gaze with IAS jewel, Fortitude)

Whirlwind Build:
20 Sword Mastery
20 Whirlwind
20 Battle Orders
20 Berserk
1 point in Natural Resists, Increased Speed, Battle Command, Battle Cry and prerequisites
remaining points in Shout

Frenzy Build #1 (max damage):
20 Frenzy
20 Taunt
20 Double Swing
20 Sword Mastery
1 Increased Speed, Natural Resists, prerequisites
remaining points were spent in Berserk
(Battle Orders & Battle Command were attained from a CtA on weapon switch)

Frenzy Build #2 (standard):
20 Frenzy
20 Battle Orders
20 Sword Mastery
10 Double Swing
10 Taunt
1 Increased Speed, Natural Resists, Berserk, Battle Command, prerequisites
remaining points were spent in Taunt & Double Swing

As for the testing location, I chose the Outer Steppes in Act4 Hell difficulty. The reason was that all the monsters that spawn there are leechable, no monsters are particularly dangerous, none are inherently Physicial Immune, and three of the monsters that spawn there have high-life and/or decent physical resistances (Venom Lords, Flesh Spawners and the corpse-spitting guys). Adding all of that up, I figured that would all minimize the effect that some variables have (i.e. there's no such thing as a dangerous spawn with my gear, drops are generally poor enough to ignore so I shouldn't have one too much variation caused by me stopping to pick stuff up, with the high-life monsters I should need enough hits when doing a full-clear that variable-rolls like Deadly Strike & Crushing Blow will normalize moderately well, etc.)

Code:

Test #1:  Whirlwind with Fortitude & (a few) Steel charms

Comments:  I knew Frenzy would have an advantage in Attack
  Rating, so I initially changed 4 'Sharp' Grand Charms for
  4 'Steel' ones to see if that would make more sense for
  the times that the 'Ignore Target Defense' mod on Grief
  wouldn't work.

  So during this test my Whirler had ~8600 AR.

Run (Times):
1.  7:50
2.  7:24
3.  7:10
AVG:  7:28
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  9
******************************************************


Test #2:  Whirlwind with Fortitude & all Sharp charms

Comments:  In this test I only swapped the 4 'Steel' Grand
  Charms for 4 'Sharp' ones.  All other stats/gear/skills
  were the same.  This dropped the Attack Rating down to
  ~7600.


Run (Times):
1.  6:34
2.  5:53
3.  6:42
AVG:  6:24
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  3

Notes:  So it was obvious the extra +Maximum Damage on my 
  Sharp charms was far more important than the extra Attack
  Rating on the Steel charms... if the Grief runewords 
  didn't have 'Ignore Target Defense' that might have been
  a different result.

  From here on out, I stayed with all 'Sharp' charms
******************************************************


Test #3:  Frenzy with Fortitude (max damage build)

Comments:  My Attack Rating with Frenzy was 10.4k

Run (Times):
1.  6:15
2.  6:20
3.  6:20
AVG:  6:18
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  2
******************************************************


Test #4:  Frenzy with Fortitude (standard build)

Run (Times):
1.  5:50
2.  7:42  (Flesh Spawners + Venom Lords + Corpse Spitters spawned)
3.  6:24
AVG:  6:42
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  2

Notes:  This series really showed how slight variations in the
  monster spawn can have a significant effect on run times.  The
  third run was the only one that "felt" like it progressed at a
  "normal" rate.
******************************************************



Test #5:  Whirlwind with Enigma

Comments:  respec was used to lower strength appropriately for
  the difference between Fortitude and Enigma from here on out.
  Two 'Sharp' grand charms were traded out for 2 'Shimmering'
  grand charms to make up for lost resistances.

Run (Times):
1.  6:47
2.  8:07  (cliff lurkers are elusive little buggers)
3.  6:03
AVG:  6:56
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  4
******************************************************


Test #6:  Frenzy with Enigma (max damage build)

Run (Times):
1.  6:34
2.  5:04
3.  6:24
AVG:  6:00
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  2
******************************************************


Test #7:  Frenzy with Enigma (standard build)

Run (Times):
1.  6:46
2.  6:31
3.  6:50
AVG:  6:42
Total # of Physical Immunes Encountered:  8

Notes:  Reached character level 90 shortly before completing
  the 2nd-last run.  I didn't distribute the extra skill and
  stat points.

Miscellaneous Notes:
- I didn't conduct the tests in the exact-same order I've presented them; that wouldn't have made sense.

- I've often thought that when you have good enough equipment, it's unnecessary to invest 20 points into Battle Orders - afterall, when you have over 3000 life, how often do you actually need an additional ~1000+ hitpoints? Hence the max-damage Frenzy build... but, of course, 99% of Frenziers do have 20 in BO, and hence the standard Frenzy build too.

- I've often been curious as to which has more benefit for most barbarians: the 300% off-weapon Enhanced Damage from Fortitude, or using Teleport to position the mercenary - and (hopefully) triggering a Decrepify curse much more often on the monster(s) you're attacking. This is especially true with Frenzy builds, since it's pretty easy to out-run your mercenary.

- My tests ignored one of the significant differences between Frenzy and Whirlwind - namely Frenzy can trigger chance-to-cast effects, while Whirlwind cannot. I think my equipment choices are certainly defensible, and not too far from optimal, but it would still make sense to conduct some tests with things like Atma's Scarab and other top-end runewords (that I don't have).

Overall:
In all honesty I was expecting Whirlwind to be a clear winner. This showed that the difference can be much, much closer than my prejudice initially allowed. And this testing was, in the end, insufficient to get a clear answer. There are (at least) two shortcomings in the way I've conducted these tests that don't allow a clear answer:

1. 3 runs per build/setup simply wasn't enough to gauge the overall differences. In reality I'd probably need closer to ~300 runs per setup/build to get reliable data. But since I'm not a BOT (and not willing to install one), that ain't gonna happen.

2. Choosing to run only one area - especially one where the monsters aren't especially dangerous - limits the effectiveness of these tests. For example, Frenzy is interruptible, while Whirlwind is not; if this were in another area where the barbarian would get knocked around, that would probably have some benefit to the whirlwind build. Likewise, having a high-life boss in the runs could've given some advantage to Frenzy since you can more easily utilize chance-to-cast effects to your advantage.

TL;DR Summary:
Can't decide? Pick whichever you like better. The difference really isn't that big.