What is a good PvM MA build using Natalya set

[maxicek]

put Bartuc's/Shael'd on left claw and Nat's/Ber'd (claw above your boot) on Right and it will be fast as hell.
Reasoning: Bart's is faster and faster claw goes on left - you are fast enough with just this!

This is just plain wrong.

Read the first post in the IAS tables there is a worked example of exactly this scenario.

WSM is averaged when dual wielding claws, but only the IAS on the primary claw (above the gloves) counts. Nat's claw has 40IAS so should therefore always be in the primary position. PS only hits with the primary claw and Nat's claw also has one of the best mods for PS - Ignores Target Defence.

The same is also true if we are talking about DC. Breakpoints for that are in my guide.

[Orion]

Bartuc's Shael'd is faster (much faster) - perhaps you should correct your guide. 20CB from Ber is better than 5-10CB from glove. Think it through. Laying of Hand is definitely the best for this build. Dragon Claw hits with both claws - and I always keep swinging. Glad I didn't read your guide.

Bartuc's Cut-Throat Greater Talons
Damage: (77-88) To (137-155) (107-121.5 Avg)
Required Level: 42
Required Strength: 79
Required Dexterity: 79
Durability: 69
Weapon Speed: [-30]
(Assassin Only)
+150-200% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Adds 25-50 Damage
30% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
5-9% Life Stolen Per Hit (varies)
+20 To Strength
+20 To Dexterity
+2 To Assassin Skill Levels
+1 To Martial Arts Skills (Assassin Only)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.09 or later)



Natalya's Mark Scissors Suwayyah
Damage: 120 To 153 (136.5 Avg)
Required Level: 79
Required Strength: 118
Required Dexterity: 118
Durability: 68
Base Weapon Speed: [0]
(Assassin Only)
+200% Enhanced Damage
+200% Damage To Undead
+200% Damage To Demons
Adds 12-17 Fire Damage
Ignores Target's Defense
40% Increased Attack Speed
+50 Cold Damage, 4 sec. Duration (Normal)

Bartuc's = -30 base, + Shael = -50
Nat Claw= 0 base, + 40= -40




Laying of Hands Bramble Mitts >>> 5-10 CB gloves and no ber in nat claw
Defense: 79-87 (varies)(Base Defense: 54-62)
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 50
Durability: 12
+25 Defense
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+350% Damage To Demons
Fire Resist +50%
10% Chance To Cast Level 3 Holy Bolt On Striking

[hubb]

As max said: That's just plain wrong.

Every attack a barb or assassin makes while dual-wielding uses WSM-averaging, whether it's something like Dragon Claw, a kick or an attack that only uses one weap. Whirlwind (and I think normal attack) is the only exception.

[Orion]

Alright, here's the story :?

I play druids - well always. I have an Assassin - Phoenix Striker (level 81) on my 2nd account that I really haven't played at all(over 3 years). She has Nat's Set with Laying of Hands. I have the Nat's Claw on the left side and a Bartuc's on the right. Haven't socketed either claw. But that Sin is gonna have to have the skills reset. I am wearing Laying of Hands, Tgod, and Mara and Raven x 2. It's a good sin with solid equipment - I just didn't have Death Sentry so no crowd control. So are you saying that I should Shael the Bart and not the Nat claw - we all know the ias counts on the left which is Nat. And yes it would be faster if I shael'd Barts and put it on the left.

I just leveled up an assassin on my primary account(level 86 now) and have 2 x Bart's 197 and 200 ed. Are you saying that I shouldn't ias the left claw? Well actually I have a 36ed/15 ias I was going to put in it and Ber the claw on the right. The left claw is always the fast claw!
Other equp on char: Soul Drainers, Dungo, Gores, COH, 2 sock Crown of Ages, Mara and 2 Ravens. The stats/skills you see on the previous page are optimal and what I have. Kinda different setup - I like it, but as I remember - the fast claw always goes on the left.

So I guess you were just messin' with me. Your forgiven

Edit:
But myself, as I think the guy who started this post, hasn't put anything in sockets yet. I made the assassin Phoenix Striker well just because claws don't have a lot of damage and:

1. The elemental damage seemed a viable option for damage and has cool effects
2. Death Sentry rocks
3. Shadow Master is a very good sidekick
4. Venom is a good addition to the elemental and physical damage

I haven't put anything in the sockets yet and the sin works fine. I've killed hell baal without any CB except for the CB on my gores. Not a fast kill mind you ---2-3 minutes. I have a hf merc with Reaper, Fort, Gaze.
So -- should you have a good suggestion - let me know 20 CB more is what I need obviously and would make kills easier along with more ed/ias.

[hubb]

You really just have to read what max posted and the posts he pointed to, but here is a more detailed explanation anyway:

WSM is the number given between square brackets on the Arreat Summit when weapons are listed - it's short for "weapon speed modifier" and is essentially the weapon's base speed. When you equip Nat's [0] and Bartuc's [-30] their WSMs are averaged to give ([0] + [-30])/2 = -15. It does not matter which side you equip which claw, the WSMs are always averaged to give -15, which is then used as a base to determine how fast you'll attack.

Now that that's done you can decide which claw you want primary. Nat's has 40 IAS to start with and the all-important ITD, so you use that as your primary claw (in the left slot above gloves).

[Orion]

Yep, so what matters is to Ber the one that hits the most - Nat's on left side then and it's obvious that no speed is calculated from the claw above the boot (right side).

Makes sense that way but I'll probably put something else in the Right Claw then - any suggestions? - I can work out about anything. Probably Lite Facet or Ed/Max Dmg. Could even be Psn Facet for ^ Psn Dmg/> Venom.

[markb]

Ok just to report what I have so far.

When using Phoenix Strike, my sin can solo hell with an infinity merc. However she struggled with life leech and needed to drink portion all the time. I used death sentry. She was able to clear hell slowly and surely.

Felt that I did not like taking portion, I converted her to just physical damage sin (tiger strike and dragin claw), now she REALLY struggled to survive in hell. Her physical damage is not high enoughto leech enough life and her weapon block caused some interruption as well.

I still enjoy play her in nightmare, just not in hell. None of her claws are socketed. For her current performance in hell, I do not feel like to waste two socket quests for that.

Thanks for all the help. You guys are great!