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  1. #291
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Meh, Speaking of Short Memory's


    ....Bonus round....
    How about the Americans and others that went from the Great Depression to paying the price to free the world ?


    Talk about depressing, you crybabies don't even remember what a real depression is,
    let alone the ETC! that ended it.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 08-12-2012 at 09:57.

  2. #292

    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazdakka View Post
    Honestly, I don't know. You tell me! If you can modify the theory to have the predicted inflation happen well after the money goes into the system, then that's a sane and intellectually consistent way out of the problem, unlike claiming that the inflation statistics are rigged.
    Austrian economics deals with human action and its logical consequences; having a model that says "If you inflate the money supply by X dollars, you will cause prices to increase by Y% within Z days" is not something you will ever see come out of it, because it is not driven by econometrics like mainstream schools.

    Also, I wouldn't claim inflation statistics are "rigged" as much as attempting to put a number on something that is completely un-measurable to begin with. The numbers we get that are called "inflation" are simply the prices this year compared to the prices last year. A real number would be the price of a good this year compared to what it would have been without inflation, since more goes into prices than simply the amount of money floating about the system (supply and overall productivity). This is impossible to measure, however.

  3. #293
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    How much do you make in a year?
    Yeah I'm American and I asked a rude question!

    $250,000 to 300,000? you are still safe.

    Making $ Over that and *****ing here ?
    Really?
    I don't think you telling the truth...

    Wat was yesteryear about again?
    12-07-2012 is gone and I'm the only one that noticed here.

    Tell me more about "Austrian economics deals with human action and its logical consequences" Saro.

    Cause People are not Potato's and logic is for Vulcans.

    We fight and die for more than that.

    But hey! Put on your Santa hats and have fun.

    FYI: You don't create jobs because you have more money. You create jobs because there is more demand for what you make/provide.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 08-12-2012 at 21:44.

  4. #294
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazdakka View Post
    ...and are you saying that you think that there is a conspiracy to systematically underreport inflation?
    Is it a conspiracy when completely out in the open? Using an inflation rate that doesn't track the things most likely to indicate inflation... not much conspiracy there. Oh, and it's BIPARTISAN!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazdakka View Post
    That has not happened.
    So, because it happens every time, for completely recognizable reasons, and is appearing to be happening now, means we should just say, 'feck it' and go on printing Dollars. Right?


    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane View Post
    I have to admit, that list makes OWS look like a LOT more fun . . .
    The TEA rallies weren't much different than your run-of-the-mill 4th of July festivals, without hot dogs or pie.
    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane View Post
    I still expect it to. Does Austrian economics say when such inflation must occur?
    Bingo.


    EDIT - weird, I can't do threaded reply any longer. Plus my Adobe Flash crashed, so maybe it's trying to tell me something. I'll reply to Steve more carefully later, but to Bob's stuff on Bush & McCain, you'll recall that I parse my words carefully. Both of them are obvious GOP Progressives, and I recall just how dodgy Bush was regarding 'inflating his way' out of foreign debt. There's no way that we screw over the Chinese debt-holders, and leave old pensioners pulling down the same economically.

    Except nationalization, which is obviously where we've been going for four years.

  5. #295
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Inflating out of debt . Whoever believes in that, he must be pretty naive. If an investment (like re-financing bonds which are running out) returns less than the expected inflation rate, it will not be made.

    You cannot inflate out of debts, you can only hyper-inflate out of them out of surprise. As soon as there are any rumours about hyper-inflation, nobody will lend money in the currency which is expected to hyper-inflate.
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  6. #296
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Your strawman was more a one part sass, and one part perspective. All major currencies are fiats, and with the euro trouble, and the chinese instability, there's no real alternative to the dollar--despite our rivals trying very very hard.
    Not so. Just because all the other fiat currencies pegged to America hardly means we're the only game in town. They'd have dropped us like a hot rock for South Africa if the whites were still in charge, but since it's Obama-style commies they're not in the game. Canada might be an option if they weren't so Leftist - they, too, still openly back their currency. Now, it's possible that the U.S. may try some odd-ball currency stunt like this in order to 'pull back' on demand, but I find it quite unlikely to resolve the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    selective american exceptionalism?
    I'm sure the Romans thought the Empire was forever, too... you remind me of kris - don't read anything that might shatter your bullcrap assumptions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I think you know me well enough now (whether you'll admit it or not), that I don't trust Obama to make any substantial cuts. I rail against both parties, i just get more crap for railing against the GOP because there are more of us here.
    I guess I don't know you, then, because you don't rail against the Dems or EVER make sufficient defense of your (false, IMO) claims of Libertarian belief. Saro and I may detest each other cordially, but HE's the real deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I KNOW i make decisions emotionally, and try to bring some analytics to it (we've discussed a lot of them here), but in the end, it comes down to who do I feel most comfortable with.
    So you're in this clip?



    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I don't really care if we fund sesame street or not, i just didn't see a plan that would either (a) pass congress or (b) actually reduce our deficit, much less our debt. Mind you, obama's "plan" sucked too. mostly because I couldn't really figure out what it was, being even more nebulous and vague.
    Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Christians are "nutbags" and GOP "haters" because you disagree with them, but you really are just being open-minded and don't really care? Bullcrap. Obama has feck-all as a plan, Reid has been criminally negligent for going on four years, but you don't give a good goddamn about them - your ire is reserved exclusively for those horrible guilt-mongers who tell you to eat your peas and not stick your pecker where you shouldn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    your article is interesting, but not related to anything here. Who's asking for a return to 91% tax rates?
    Obama, obviously. He wants to PUNISH those who aren't his followers, AKA "enemies", remember? They're trying to cover up Valerie Jarret's statement to the same effect. You doubtless want to pretend this is nothing but fear-mongering, but to do so you have to deliberately ignore Obama's past, his heritage, and his allies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    If the GOP doubles down on crazy, they will usher in a one party rule. Neither of us wants that.
    As Reagan said, "There you go again." GOP is crazy for not wanting to tube the Dollar. You're a one-note flute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    The reports of violence were grossly exagerrated, especially since we're talking about it in the context of the greek riots. you always have to be partisan....
    No, I just always have to shoot down your bullcrap when you spout it so readily. Violence and crime was commonplace in OWS, and non-existent in TEA - one link I provided contains the details PRE-disproving your false claim of gross exaggeration. Your words are feeble and twisted as an old woman!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Both major parties are spenders, neither wants to admit it. The GOP just likes different industries. The Democrats say they give to the common man, the GOP to Job creators--both are irresponsible at the levels we see today.
    Given you used the term "parties", I can't contest. As is visible with what's going on currently, the Progressive GOP is purging the conservatives yet again - hence my assertion we're in for one-party rule of the forseeable future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    And I do have quite a bit of respect for those that have voted to reign things in, but I've heard that talk before, and I want to see a proposal that's not a give away to a major industry.
    Which ones are those, the "nutbags" or the "crazies"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    No doubt, clinton signed several things that caused some of the mortgage problems we had (think i mentioned that a lot of democrats were involved as well).
    Properly phrased, this entire debacle was a Progressive Leftist endeavor from start to collapse, but there were enough GOP Progressives who went along for the ride that the claim of bipartisan malice is substantiated. However, to pretend that Bawney Fwank and Chris "Countrywide" Dodd shouldn't be hung, drawn, and quartered for the misery they've inflicted on the very people they claim to support is the height of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Again, my point was that pinning things on a single party is disingenuous.
    Therefore, as I have said, you're either stupid or evil, since I've explicitly shown in the past that this was a Leftist project from start to finish. Just because the GOP has it's share of malevolent, grasping cretins hardly provides justification; they're all politicians for heaven's sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I admit it's a possibility, but I am optimistic that the powers that be will not want that to happen.
    You're wrong, and guilty of the 'faith based thinking' I asserted. Unbridled, unsubstantiated optimism in the face of ruin is nothing but foolishness, which is why I'm thinking a far longer timeframe. You're not the only fool blaming the GOP exclusively, as seen in the clip.
    I mean, we are seeing right now that we are in the midst of a huge recovery. Right? Because of what this president has done. - Moochelle
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    well i don't think either is "dangerous".
    One was chock-a-block with riots and forced sexual attention. The other cleaned up their trash.
    [QUOTE=Stevinator;8465323]I DO wish the tea party had remained just about spending,[/qutoe]THEY DID!!!!
    You eagerly sucked down all the duplicitous media spooge about RAAAACIISSMMM, Theocracy, and violence because... well I already said it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Penn is an interesting guy. He makes a lot of great points, but often comes across as rather extreme.
    He's far less extremist than you are. He doesn't suggest reeducation prisons for the religious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Apparently, Glen Beck agrees with me, there's a great big middle (or majority, or third way/party, whatever you want to call it), that needs to come together.
    Now that Glenn, Sarah Palin, Allen West, and Herman Cain have been torpedoed by the Progressive cabal, you'll constantly hear how surprisingly intelligent or wise they are. Plenty of "Look! A talking dog!" articles about previously-demonized conservative figures now that the course towards the iceberg is locked in - and probably plenty of "share the blame" from people like the vile wretch Dana Milbank who ought to be publicly castrated.

  7. #297
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    I guess I don't know you, then, because you don't rail against the Dems or EVER make sufficient defense of your (false, IMO) claims of Libertarian belief. Saro and I may detest each other cordially, but HE's the real deal.
    That's mostly because the dynamics of this forum have changed over the years. i may sound left compared to you, but I'm fairly middle of the raod compard to national polls, and actually more free market than some of the other places I frequent. They used to group me with Saro and them Killer back in the day because compared to LLad, we sounded a lot alike. it's all relative to where you're standing.

    Also, i didn't claim to be a pure libertarian, I said the exact opposite of that, claiming that I fall on a political spectrum, in the moderate libertarian area of the map. I prefer the term moderate, or independent, and I have never voted a straight ticket.


    So you're in this clip?
    Um, no. the questions he asked were:

    Quote Originally Posted by video (paraphrased)
    Do you know what the fiscal cliff is?
    I would have said yes.

    Who (which party) has a better idea on how to deal with the fiscal cliff?
    I would say I haven't heard a plan i like, if he pressed for an answer, I'd say Neither.

    Should we "close loopholes"?
    He means eliminate deductions. My answer would be depends on the deductions, and the loopholes.

    When should we raise taxes?
    BTW: The woman he interviewed talked about how much a person HAD, not what someone MADE. But i assume he means who if anyone should have their INCOME taxes raised.

    My answer would be people who have large amounts of Capital Gains + Income. If he pressed for a number, I'd tell him the steepest rates should kick in ~20 times the poverty level. I have a lot of other tax suggestions, but we've covered them thoroughly, I think.

    Is a household making 250k "superwealthy"?
    I would say, yes that puts you in the top 2-3% of all income earners. (this is AGI afterall).

    Do you agree with raising taxes on households making >250k?
    Yes, although how we calculate that 250k should change. (also i had a lot of other suggestions on revamping the tax code)

    Should we raise the debt ceiling
    Yes, if it looks like we'll default, raising the ceiling is better than defaulting. that's money we have already spent. but we need to make sure we find was to spend less going forward so we don't have to keep doing this.

    Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Christians are "nutbags" and GOP "haters" because you disagree with them, but you really are just being open-minded and don't really care? Bullcrap. Obama has feck-all as a plan, Reid has been criminally negligent for going on four years, but you don't give a good goddamn about them - your ire is reserved exclusively for those horrible guilt-mongers who tell you to eat your peas and not stick your pecker where you shouldn't.
    phooey. They're all bought and paid for. The lack of agreement on a budget is because everyone wants to cut everyone else's stuff. It's everyone's job to make a budget. We sent them there to find some common ground and resolve the problems this country faces.

    Things the GOP has right:
    -We do need to reduce overall government spending (at least flatten the baseline enough, for long enough that we no longer anticipate going broke. or broker. in the primaries, i heard talk of a freeze, and even an ambitious talk of rolling back to 2004 spending.)
    -We need to make sure our entitlement programs are solvent
    -We can't keep FICA rates low forever, because that's making the Social Security mess worse later.

    Things the Dems have right:
    -Taxes are being collected unfairly when rich guys like Romney pay 15% and someone who makes 100k salary pays >25%. I wish their solution fixed the problem (it doesn't), but they have identified a problem.
    -We should shift spending priorities away from the military and to investments in infrastructure, research and other capital goods.
    -We should get illegals out of the black market and allow them to work legally so we can add them to the tax rolls.

    So can we take these things and mush them together into a plan? I think it's clear we need to do all of these things.


    Obama, obviously. He wants to PUNISH those who aren't his followers, AKA "enemies", remember?
    False. He's proposed to revert to the 39.6% top marginal rate we had before bush got them lowered. Obamacare does add another tax layer, so that rate becomes 44%. No one has asked to go back the the 91% rates. I asked that as a Rhetorical Question.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

    As Reagan said, "There you go again." GOP is crazy for not wanting to tube the Dollar. You're a one-note flute.
    During Reagan's tenure, average inflation was 4.2%. We haven't seen that much inflation since late 2008. The last number (October 2012) was 2.16%%.
    http://inflationdata.com/inflation/I...tInflation.asp

    Also, Reagan ran a record setting deficit himself.
    http://www.bushlastdayparty.com/img/chart-usDeficit.gif

    So yeah Reagan, there we go again. Gettin' fooled again.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIHJ9RMAVGI

    Ooh, and since we're doing a quote theme here, I love Nixon's: "Honesty may not be the best policy, but it's worth trying once in a while".

    So many levels. (I caught you in a fiblet, when talking about politician's lying, and nixon is known for lying, and he admits in in the quote, which makes it the truth about lying!) Mindblown!


    No, I just always have to shoot down your bullcrap when you spout it so readily. Violence and crime was commonplace in OWS, and non-existent in TEA - one link I provided contains the details PRE-disproving your false claim of gross exaggeration. Your words are feeble and twisted as an old woman!
    compared to greece? Stop for a second and smell your hyperbole.

    Also, I have never seen this movie you link to quotes from. (normally, i would move this from to somewhere else in the sentence, but I can't.)

    Also, the quotes you linked to are from a movie i have never seen? That's not right. Whatever.

    Given you used the term "parties", I can't contest.
    Well, FINALLY. I think you disagree with me just for your own amusement sometimes.

    As is visible with what's going on currently, the Progressive GOP is purging the conservatives yet again - hence my assertion we're in for one-party rule of the forseeable future.
    Unlikely, the GOP was very successful at filling up statehouses and maintaining house seats (albeit by gerrymandering instead of embracing the libertarian wing of the party--small "L") So you're going to see a lot of things happen on that level that go along with their GOP agenda.

    Michigan is trying to go right to work...anyway, don't move to canada just yet.

    Which ones are those, the "nutbags" or the "crazies"?
    It's possible to be fiscally responsible AND crazy. These days it almost seems like they go hand in hand.

    Properly phrased, this entire debacle was a Progressive Leftist endeavor from start to collapse, but there were enough GOP Progressives who went along for the ride that the claim of bipartisan malice is substantiated. However, to pretend that Bawney Fwank and Chris "Countrywide" Dodd shouldn't be hung, drawn, and quartered for the misery they've inflicted on the very people they claim to support is the height of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by first paragraph from Wikipedia
    To be hanged, drawn and quartered (less commonly "hung, drawn and quartered") was from 1351 a penalty in England for men convicted of high treason, although the ritual was first recorded during the reigns of King Henry III (1216–1272) and his successor, Edward I (1272–1307). Convicts were fastened to a hurdle, or wooden panel, and drawn by horse to the place of execution, where they were hanged (almost to the point of death), emasculated,disembowelled, beheaded and quartered (chopped into four pieces). Their remains were often displayed in prominent places across the country, such asLondon Bridge. For reasons of public decency, women convicted of high treason were instead burnt at the stake.
    Yuck. But yes, we should lay a lot of blame on Mr. Frank (lol fwank). I'm not sure violence will recoup my down payment on this place, but i would be willing to ask the courts to find something for him that passes muster against the eighth.

    Therefore, as I have said, you're either stupid or evil, since I've explicitly shown in the past that this was a Leftist project from start to finish. Just because the GOP has it's share of malevolent, grasping cretins hardly provides justification; they're all politicians for heaven's sake.
    *facepalm

    You're wrong, and guilty of the 'faith based thinking' I asserted. Unbridled, unsubstantiated optimism in the face of ruin is nothing but foolishness, which is why I'm thinking a far longer timeframe. You're not the only fool blaming the GOP exclusively, as seen in the clip.
    A few paragraphs ago you quoted mr optimism (reagan), and now you're going all sartre on me. Does obamacare not cover your lithium?

    At least if you're going to be all chicken little, you should be more smug about it. Throw out something really wonky like;

    Herbert Stein's Law: Trends that can't continue, won't.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Stein

    Anyway, YES, If we look at a long enough time horizon, the USA will collapse eventually. And the sun will engulf the earth, and all the universe will eventually be black holes slowly evaporating for trillions of years. Unfortunately for me, I've already lived what will likely amount to more than a third of my life. Probably more because I still smoke almost everyday and i tend to drive faster than i should. Other than that, it's hard to make predictions out 20-30 years, because there are SO many variables to consider.


    “I mean, we are seeing right now that we are in the midst of a huge recovery. Right? Because of what this president has done.” - Moochelle
    One was chock-a-block with riots and forced sexual attention. The other cleaned up their trash.
    In fairness, the first lady's job is to be a big cheerleader, and say positive supportive things. I hope that after her biden-esque string of gaffes they decide to stop floating her name around as a potential senator, a la Hilary. She's nothing like Hilary.

    He's far less extremist than you are. He doesn't suggest reeducation prisons for the religious.
    Neither did I.

    You HAVE to stop that. My wanting people to wake up and smell the coffee doesn't mean i want to impose ANY force on anyone. I also want people to eat healthy, does that mean I would support New York's soda size cap? Or banning Trans-fatty acids? Nope. I specifically have said I don't want churches, or camps, or Prisons, or whatever you're calling them now. All of that is just tools for groupthink. The fact that you continue to insist i said that is just you trying to paint me as something I'm not. If you want to go debate that person, by all means, but it just makes you look silly.

    Side note, in the post I'm replying to, you threatened violence to several individuals. The one who threatens violence against people they disagree with is you buddy. I think the term for that is "projection".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

    You know, projection is a sign of ASPD (Anti-social Personality Disorder), which has common comorbidity with mood disorders we established above. I used to joke that you were a nutbar, but maybe you really should get that checked...

    ;-)



    Now that Glenn, Sarah Palin, Allen West, and Herman Cain have been torpedoed by the Progressive cabal, you'll constantly hear how surprisingly intelligent or wise they are. Plenty of "Look! A talking dog!" articles about previously-demonized conservative figures now that the course towards the iceberg is locked in - and probably plenty of "share the blame" from people like the vile wretch Dana Milbank who ought to be publicly castrated.
    Sarah Palin seemed to concern herself with things that Alaskans cared about, but not so much with what the lower 48'ers cared about. That's not dumb, it's inexperience. If it wasn't for Tina Fey looking exactly like her, the fall out would not have been so bad. Look at this: You can't fight it. More people saw Tina's version than the real thing. She defined her. That's not a liberal conspiracy, that's one particular comedian doing her job.
    tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-next-to-sarah-palin1.jpg

    Herman Cain seems like he would be a good leader, but he had basically no knowledge of public policy. And was grossly unprepared for a presidential run.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KvZjdEh2k0

    Allen West never did anything but be a black republican. Oh, and he refused to admit he lost. I think if he comes back and wins, he could very easily end up back in office. He's fairly plain jane policy wise. At least from a quick zip through his stances on the issues.
    http://www.allenwestforcongress.com/issues/
    Last edited by Stevinator; 11-12-2012 at 07:40.

  8. #298
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    [QUOTE=Stevinator;8466735]
    Who (which party) has a better idea on how to deal with the fiscal cliff?

    I would say I haven't heard a plan i like, if he pressed for an answer, I'd say Neither.[
    /QUOTE]

    In politics, that's not the relevant question. It depends on who is pressed to a greater extent to deal with it. It's not just about getting things done, but also about making the others not getting things done and making a good impression. It's like taking ballett dancers for a 100m sprint while making sure that the others don't get away with anything but ballett dancers as well.

    Obama made a proposal which finds the consent of enough Americans (I won't make assumptions about how many), so the Republicans will have to make one which (1) finds one with a similar support, (2) doesn't make them break their idiotic "I'll never agree to tax raises" oath and (3) achieve it in the next 3 weeks. Good luck!

    That won't be the last situation like that for those mentioned in (2). These people are not just strategically useless, they are actually helping their political opponents. I think it would be stratigically best for the GOP to get rid of all of them at once. The earlier, the better.
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  9. #299
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    Crap, lost my reply again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    They used to group me with Saro and them Killer back in the day because compared to LLad, we sounded a lot alike. it's all relative to where you're standing.
    That's like grouping me with Smeg because we both dislike Islamists. Perspective is only shorthand; what you believe in matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Also, i didn't claim to be a pure libertarian, I said the exact opposite of that, claiming that I fall on a political spectrum, in the moderate libertarian area of the map. I prefer the term moderate, or independent, and I have never voted a straight ticket.
    There's no such thing as a "pure" Libertarian, as they're torn on what the standard of purity should be. Suffice it to say that in considering me as Libertarian, you're my mirror image from the Left side.
    [QUOTE=Stevinator;8466735]He means eliminate deductions. My answer would be depends on the deductions, and the loopholes.[/quote]Strangely, the Democrat Party has no interest whatsoever in eliminating loopholes, despite pouring venom on Romney and others for using them. Why d'ya think THAT is?
    [QUOTE=Stevinator;8466735]Yes, if it looks like we'll default, raising the ceiling is better than defaulting. that's money we have already spent. but we need to make sure we find was to spend less going forward so we don't have to keep doing this.[/quote]So essentially you're in Geithner's "To Infinity and BEYOND!" camp, as there's no way the Progressives of either side intend to cut back on spending.




    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    The lack of agreement on a budget is because everyone wants to cut everyone else's stuff. It's everyone's job to make a budget. We sent them there to find some common ground and resolve the problems this country faces.
    Wrong. Again. Don't you ever tire? Obama & Co. have no interest in agreement; their intent is to destroy the prospects of the GOP for the forseeable future, and thanks to Boehner and his allies, they're succeeding.
    That's why the only responsible, conservative, Libertarian thing to do is "Let it Burn". Only when the Progressives are held responsible by the public (as I have termed it, 'having their teeth smashed off in the asphalt'), can we possibly get people to consider stepping back from they abyss. THAT is why I'm so dismayed and disgusted by this election - it's not just Obama; he won by smaller numbers than McCain lost by previously. It's that Ben Franklin's fears have come to pass - the electorate wants to vote themselves "free stuff" and the rest of the electorate is too irresponsible to care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Things the Dems have right:
    -Taxes are being collected unfairly when rich guys like Romney pay 15% and someone who makes 100k salary pays >25%. I wish their solution fixed the problem (it doesn't), but they have identified a problem.
    So you support the idea of beating the snot out of investors. Good for you. Say buh-bye to your future, as France discovered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    So can we take these things and mush them together into a plan? I think it's clear we need to do all of these things.
    No, it's only clear that Progressives intend to slowly loot the treasury, just as seen in most other collapses. Jim DeMint quit the other day, perhaps from disgust. The Democrats who have a shred of honesty may hang on a little longer.

    Step 1: Unconditional surrender to Obama and the Democrats

    Step 2: ???

    Step 3: Massive entitlement reform that neither Obama nor any Democrat wants.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    False. He's proposed to revert to the 39.6% top marginal rate we had before bush got them lowered. Obamacare does add another tax layer, so that rate becomes 44%. No one has asked to go back the the 91% rates.
    No, he wants to PUNISH his opponents ("enemies"), and has said so more than once. The crap you're spewing was already overwhelmingly rejected by the Democrat Senate, and THE WON has also previously stated that he **KNOWS** it won't make a difference - he has already said he wants to pass this to PUNISH the "rich".



    Which really doesn't mean the "rich", but those who are in the producer/owner category; gigolos who reap profits from others' investment income and vile gangsters who know how to milk the tax loopholes will be untouched.

    In other words, hey Middle Class! Get ready for a massive arse-reaming! That's not even considering the "cruelest tax" as your savings evaporate... Again, "Let it Burn" / voting "Present" are the only viable options. Let all the stupid fecks eat pavement, so sorry you're such fools, "burned hand teaches best".
    [QUOTE=Stevinator;8466735]Also, Reagan ran a record setting deficit himself.[/qutoe]You sure you want to bring up a great example of Democrat treason (though truth be told, "Progressive" remains the more accurate label)? Besides, the changes to the measurement of inflation (and unemployment) have been made multiple times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Mindblown!
    There was no fib, or even fiblet, and you must not have much there for you to blow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    compared to greece? Stop for a second and smell your hyperbole.
    Regarding the violence? You were considering OWS equal to TEA, which was what I busily shoved up your arse. Or regarding fiscal situation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Also, the quotes you linked to are from a movie i have never seen? That's not right. Whatever.
    You're just a soup sandwich, son. It's Michael Crichton's take on Beowulf; critics panned it but it's one of my faves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I think you disagree with me just for your own amusement sometimes.
    I've said as much, you'll remember.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Unlikely, the GOP was very successful at filling up statehouses and maintaining house seats (albeit by gerrymandering instead of embracing the libertarian wing of the party--small "L")
    Remind me to explain to you the sad state of the election process sometime, as well as why some states even matter (emphasis mine).
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Yuck.
    Mild. I've advocated the mythological treatment of Edward II as well, though that's probably homophobic of me and it's untrue in any event.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    *facepalm
    You're saying it's wrong to blame a single party, but I'm discussing the aspect of Progressivism often seen as there being no difference between the two. The corrupt are of a single Progressive mindset - self interest at the expense of liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    A few paragraphs ago you quoted mr optimism (reagan), and now you're going all sartre on me.
    So you're claiming 1979 = 2012?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Anyway, YES, If we look at a long enough time horizon, the USA will collapse eventually.
    The counter being that changes to civilizations often come very abruptly, while the citizenry stands around with their puds in hand wondering WTF just happened. That's what I see coming. I've been wrong a couple of times; I thought we'd see a hot war in Korea but all that happened was the Norks blew up a few people on some islands (and Psy launched a grotesque anti-American tirade nobody knew about).
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    She's nothing like Hilary.
    IMO Moochelle would probably be better than "The Lioness of Tuzla"; "Sister Frigidaire" was rabble rousing vermin like O and then rode Bill to success - she's all ego and no skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    You HAVE to stop that. My wanting people to wake up and smell the coffee doesn't mean i want to impose ANY force on anyone.
    I'm not known for letting people off the hook for their totalitarian desires, sorry. Just because you backpedalled after recognizing how vile your belief was doesn't make it any less vile. You wanted to FORCE them to subvert their own beliefs - beliefs which, as it turns out, have far more legitimate social ramifications than yours do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    The fact that you continue to insist i said that is just you trying to paint me as something I'm not. If you want to go debate that person, by all means, but it just makes you look silly.
    Again, that you recanted something you originally didn't think through doesn't make your initial impulse less nasty. Speaking of that post, you made much out of my nasty verbiage about militant homosexuals, militant Atheists, and American communists - feel free to continue to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I used to joke that you were a nutbar, but maybe you really should get that checked...
    You've called ALL Christians/religious "nutbars", more than once. You've also explained that the reason you hate Christianity is that it makes you feel guilty. Freudian?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    More people saw Tina's version than the real thing. She defined her. That's not a liberal conspiracy, that's one particular comedian doing her job.
    Nuh-uh, sorry. Fey wasn't particularly skilled, plus she was pulled into the media spotlight purposefully. I'm not shouting "conspiracy"; there's generally nothing secretive about the entertainment/media industry sandbagging conservatives and touting Marxist belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I think if he comes back and wins, he could very easily end up back in office. He's fairly plain jane policy wise.
    He's a black, military, TEA-favored candidate. The Left wants him dead, and even if he carpetbags to Georgia (an invitation was already extended) he's going to continue being lambasted with every nasty possibilty that can be mustered. Most notably, calling a spade a spade (and yes, I'm aware of the RAAAACISSTTT aspect of that phrase). Cain was too undisciplined to be on the national stage, which made the Progressives character assassination much easier. I bet you never heard anything about Obama's membership in "Man's Country"...

    *******************************

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Obama made a proposal which finds the consent of enough Americans (I won't make assumptions about how many), so the Republicans will have to make one which (1) finds one with a similar support, (2) doesn't make them break their idiotic "I'll never agree to tax raises" oath and (3) achieve it in the next 3 weeks. Good luck!
    Kris, as I've cited above, Obama actually has made no proposal. He's simply crapping on the GOP attempts to grovel at his feet. That's why the "Let it Burn"/"Present" strategy is the only rational option at this point; Boehner is destroying the GOP by highlighting the claim of infighting and at the same time letting Reid claim that the GOP is dragging feet or blocking the solution.

  10. #300
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: The Greatest Depression

    A lot of people think he made one by demanding more taxes from"the rich" ... and beyond placing the term in quotes, I'm not going to elaborate on what a proper definition would be. It's irrelevant what you think about it . If his goal was just to damage the Republicans, he wouldn't even have to make a proposal, but dismiss all their plans and wait for them to run over the cliff like lemmings. I think he wants something to be done, but it might not be to your liking that he could have some kind of success with it.

    I think I should be happy that you don't disagree that the oath was silly. Not because it's wrong to fight for less taxes, but because it leaves them so unflexible, with no choices when finding a solution. The Democrats won't agree to them just because they swore it. They could simply demand something which includes a tax raise, even if it was irrelevant, and the others will have to pay dearly to get it off the list. After all, if you swear something, keeping your word may come at a cost, and so is breaking it, else it's worthless. I seriously believe in that.
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