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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member Scorch Hellfire's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Mage Slayer View Post
    Maybe Tyreal gave him some invisibility or something... I doubt we'll get a proper answer.
    Actually we may in Diablo 3 as there are files that reference Marius's ghost... I always wondered why Marius was so special to be taken as the companion of the Dark Wanderer and charged by Tyrael to ensure the destruction of the soulstones... it seems like a lot to be placed on the shoulders of what seemed like some random guy that happens to be in Tristram when Diablo destroys it... also the fact that he somehow sneaks by all the demons and monsters on the way into and back out of the Durance of Hate unscathed to wind up in that mental asylum... Just who the hell is this guy and how does he manage to do all of that stuff? And why didn't the Prime evils sense him there at their meeting near the portal into Hell and simply kill him and take the soulstone from him then? Or even before then while Diablo was making his way to Mephisto? There has to be more to him to justify all of this weirdness and plot holes... perhaps he has some hidden identity that Tyrael and Diablo knew about but he didn't...

    I also wonder something else about the nature of the Soulstones and what happened to the Three after they were destroyed... Tyrael says that Diablo and Mephisto's spirits were sent back into the Black Abyss where they came from and since this is part of Hell then doesn't that mean the Three are already back in Hell and can easily come back to power and invade Sanctuary themselves? If Tyrael knew this would happen when the Soustones were destroyed then why did he bother? Why not keep them trapped inside the stones instead of releasing them back into Hell where they could recover and regroup? Why not instead cast the stones into the Void or some other place where they aren't able to corrupt people? It all seems very reckless of Tyrael and odd in general... maybe there's some property of the Black Abyss that's supposed to unmake demons that are forced back into it that they don't talk about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanith View Post
    That's what makes the matter of the "Black Soulstone" so puzzling to me. That thing is the size of a pineapple, and clearly not meant for being jammed into a head or torso.

    Not a human one, at any rate.

    Well it's clearly different from the other soulstones in power and purpose... It's likely that the first three were tiny fragments of the Worldstone that Tyrael took and modified for the purpose of containing the Three shortly after the Dark Exile, but the Black Soulstone is possibly a chunk of the the Worldstone that was corrupted by Baal and somehow saved from the destruction of the main section...

    Or there's a good possibility that it was a chunk of the Worldstone that was somehow obtained and then corrupted/modified by Zoltun Kulle for his own benefit before he was defeated by the other Horadrim as the game files suggest that a major part of Act 2 is reforming Zoltun Kulle and acquiring the Black Soulstone, so I'm guessing you put him back together for the sole purpose of obtaining it as he's probably the only one who knows where it is (otherwise you wouldn't be helping such an evil and powerful person) for that reason...

    Or perhaps it's not a piece of the Worldstone at all and is just some other random artifact that has nothing to do with the existing backstory at all... but I doubt that...


    Last edited by Scorch Hellfire; 28-11-2011 at 20:35.

  2. #32

    Re: Lore Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Mage Slayer View Post
    How Marius got in is a very good question, however. I can only guess he sneaked in right behind Diablo and Baal before the door closed! Maybe Tyreal gave him some invisibility or something... I doubt we'll get a proper answer.
    That one is just as easy as how Diablo and Baal got in. They just let him follow Diablo and Baal in, while making him think he found a way to sneak in.

    He was there pawn, even after being charged with the destruction of Baal's soulstone by Tyrael he was dancing to their tune, they were pulling his strings.

    They knew he wasn't going to make it through the portal to Hell and that he'd run in terror, keeping the soulstone safe and hidden.


    "The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." - Albert Einstein

  3. #33
    IncGamers Member Scorch Hellfire's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    That may be the case, Neinball, but that still doesn't answer the question of why he was chosen by both sides when he was a seemingly insignificant person and the question of why didn't the prime evils just take Baal's soulstone from him right when they were sending Diablo back to Hell? Why let him wander off to be put into that insane asylum just to later take it from him while fooling him to think he was giving it to Tyrael? Is there some weird issue where they couldn't take it from him by force? Just seems like a lot of pointless effort and trickery...



  4. #34

    Re: Lore Compendium

    Wasn't attempting to answer those questions so not sure where you're going with that.

    Why/how/what for is all unknown, the only thing we know is that he was a pawn of their endgame.


    "The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." - Albert Einstein

  5. #35
    Site Contributor fmulder's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch Hellfire View Post
    Why let him wander off to be put into that insane asylum just to later take it from him while fooling him to think he was giving it to Tyrael? Is there some weird issue where they couldn't take it from him by force? Just seems like a lot of pointless effort and trickery...
    I used to think the soulstone had to ge given away willingly and that's why Baal sat there for 20 minutes listening to Mariuu's story.



  6. #36
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    Given that Baal is Lord of Destruction, you'd think he, more than anyone else, would simply kill Marius and take the stone if he could. For that matter, if it was so important, why not take it from him in Tal Rasha's chamber? Or in the Durance? Could letting Marius into the Durance to witness what he did have a been a deliberate ploy to send him mad and make him vulnerable to be tricked? Why go to all that trouble unless it's the only way to get the soulstone?

    Aiden and Tal Rasha took on the soulstones willingly - both for noble reasons, not because they were corrupted. Albrecht probably had Diablo's soulstone forced upon him by Lazarus, not Diablo. It's possible Mephisto was able to pull a similar trick to get Sankekur to take on his soulstone - with virtually all of the local Zakarum priesthood corrupted he wouldn't have had any trouble finding someone to do it, assuming Sankekur in his corrupted state couldn't do it himself. If that last part were true, it'd also explain why Diablo didn't just possess Lazarus - he needed someone to actually manipulate the soulstone as well as a body to possess; the former needed to be willing, the latter not so much.

    It makes sense that the angels would have put some magical safeguards on the soulstones. So, I'd suggest based on the actions we've seen that:
    1) Demons cannot forcibly take a soulstone from someone.
    2) Demons cannot directly force a soulstone upon a human, nor can they influence them to take it on by corrupting them. The host has to be willing or can be forced by other humans (who may or may not be demonically corrupted.)

    What do you guys think? Can anyone think of anything that invalidates those rules? Are you satisfied that they explain the apparently odd decisions/actions we've seen the characters take? Do you think we even need to justify those decisions?



  7. #37
    IncGamers Member Brokenstorm's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    Marius clearly was a pawn in all this, probably from the very start. As Baal said:
    You haven't failed, old man. You've done exactly as you were meant to do.


    What may be more worth discussing is the fact that Baal didn't seem to be bound to his Soulstone the way Mephisto and Diablo were. At the point were Marius remove the soulstone from Tal Rasha, Baal as already left the Soulstone. I guess the question is, why did he need it back? Or am I understanding to whole thing wrong?

    edit: now that I think about it maybe since he corrupted the soulstone, he needed it before he would be powerful enough to take his real form.



    Last edited by Brokenstorm; 29-11-2011 at 18:11.

  8. #38
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    The soulstone didn't quite work for Baal the way it did for the others; because of the damage to the stone Tal Rasha himself was part of the prison. It was actually removing the stone that allowed Baal to free himself. Also, note that in the LOD opening cinematic, he merely has the stone strung around his neck, not inserted into his body.

    From The Nature Of The Soulstones:
    We found that while the shards still held the power to lure the demon to them, they could not properly contain it. Tal Rasha, a fellow Initiate who has been since immortalized in Horadrim lore, theorized that a mortal of strong will might be able to contain Baal within his own mortal soul.
    I'd put forward that Baal was actually trapped inside Tal Rasha, not the soulstone shard, and that the shard acted to prevent Baal from asserting full control of Tal Rasha's body. Tal Rasha was the prison, the soulstone was the lock.

    It follows that the soulstone shard could imprison Baal again. Baal wanted it back to ensure it could not be used against him. And when you're as powerful as a Prime Evil the safest place to keep something is probably on your person.



  9. #39
    IncGamers Member Tanith's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    Which brings us neatly to yet another unanswered question: what became of Baal's soulstone? It wasn't destroyed at the Hellforge as Diablo's and Mephisto's were, it was still on Baal as he died, and landed in a puddle of Baal barf. Which might be very well enough to destroy it.

    But if not, was it destroyed in the ensuing explosion of the Worldstone? And if not...what became of it?






  10. #40
    IncGamers Member Scorch Hellfire's Avatar
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    Re: Lore Compendium

    I guess that all makes sense about needing to get it willingly from the current holder, however it still seems odd that some nobody drifter is the one that both sides would rely on to get the job done, especially Tyrael... Did he really think Marius would suceed in going all the way through the Chaos Sanctuary out to the Hell Forge to destroy them?

    And I'm still interested to know how the whole banishing of the prime evils back to the Black Abyss (which is part of Hell) thing works... because it seems very odd that Tyrael would want to do that versus putting the stones in a more safe place (like into the Void or on some other world altogether)...

    It's starting to look like Tyrael has alterior motives in all of this or that maybe that was the original plan, but I doubt blizzard would make him evil now... or at least, not permanently...



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