DoT and Pet Scaling

[snurrfint]

Done that already. Tested 8 times on different weapons, and the outcome was always the same. Equipping an offhand weapon increases attack speed by 15%.

Anyone want more numbers, just to prove it? :>

I'm still not entirely convinced to be honest.

What you guys said was that your main hand attack speed gets increased by 15% when dual-wielding. Fine, that may be true. But, it would make more sense if dual-wielding just increased your over-all attack speed by 15%.

"The Exploding Palm DoT does a base 65% weapon dmg per second, if a monk is using a 1.2 APS weapon the DoT will now deal 78% (65 x 1.2=78) wpn dmg per second. A dual wielding monk with a 1.2 APS main hand weapon will deal 89.7% (65 x (1.2 x 1.15)=89.7) wpn dmg per second."

What you suggest is that a 14.5 dps main hand weapon together with a 2.5 dps weapon in off-hand would produce the same dps as a 14.5 dps off-hand. That could be true, if the DoT dmg is only based on the main hand dmg, but to me, it sounds like a really crappy design.

What would make more sense is that the dot dps is based on an average dps from both weapons multiplied with 1.15 for dual-wield attack speed bonus.

I'm not trying to disprove you, but are you really sure that you are correct?

[Grayson Carlyle]

For Barbarian (and probably Monk) non-DoT attacks, the skill uses the weapon damage of the last weapon you swung with. So if you swing with a 40 DPS 1H then swing with a 2 DPS 1H, then use HotA, you'll do a whopping 3-4 damage to each enemy you hit. It's terrible design and makes no sense at all, but that's how it is. So I wouldn't be surprised if they screwed up DW DoT and pet damage too. I'd go confirm if I had beta, but my point is, there's no reason to be surprised if things don't make sense in D3 right now. :/

[Astehnir]

Just tested it. I used a 3dps (1,20aps) mainhand weapon and a 17,5dps (1,47aps) offhand weapon. The DoT of the exploding palm did 2dmg/tick, when the last strike was done by the mainhand weapon, and 14dmg/tick for the offhand.

Fortunately both classes (wizard, witch doctor), that have most skills, that synergise with aps, cannot dualwield weapons, so you won't wonder, if the ray of frost is ticking your main or offhand weapon. ;]

[snurrfint]

Just tested it. I used a 3dps (1,20aps) mainhand weapon and a 17,5dps (1,47aps) offhand weapon. The DoT of the exploding palm did 2dmg/tick, when the last strike was done by the mainhand weapon, and 14dmg/tick for the offhand.

Fortunately both classes (wizard, witch doctor), that have most skills, that synergise with aps, cannot dualwield weapons, so you won't wonder, if the ray of frost is ticking your main or offhand weapon. ;]

Well then. That's pretty disappointing. I guess that most one-handers have similar dps. So this is pretty much only a problem for characters with two very different quality weapons, but still. You don't really want to waste your fury or spirit with the lower quality weapon. To avoid this, you'll have to count every attack.

meh.

[Astehnir]

There hasn't been a situation in which my weapons had some big quality differences. Often it was like 2-5dps or 0,2aps more on the better one. That is until i got my blacksmith. After that i had the best weapons available in beta for both hands. For the barbarian that is ;>

[cacophony]

Just tested it. I used a 3dps (1,20aps) mainhand weapon and a 17,5dps (1,47aps) offhand weapon. The DoT of the exploding palm did 2dmg/tick, when the last strike was done by the mainhand weapon, and 14dmg/tick for the offhand.

Fortunately both classes (wizard, witch doctor), that have most skills, that synergise with aps, cannot dualwield weapons, so you won't wonder, if the ray of frost is ticking your main or offhand weapon. ;]

That's fine for a "fast" skill like Exploding Palm. I actually like that approach.

What happens when we get to Earthquake, Call of the Ancients, or other big cooldown skills? What about Seven Sided Strike? Does each individual strike alternate hands? What about Hunters and the big cooldown on Rain of Vengeance? What about runed Conviction Aura, which makes it a constant damage aura? Which weapon is ticking each second, or does it alternate hands each second?

[Astehnir]

Well most of those skills that you mentioned aren't available in the beta, so we can just guess and wonder. The rain of vengeance skill probably works on the same principle as exploding palm, so the damage of the skill is different on mainhand weapon strike and the offhand. However like I said, it's pretty hard to have two weapons with big dmg difference. At least I had no problem with that.

[cacophony]

Well most of those skills that you mentioned aren't available in the beta, so we can just guess and wonder. The rain of vengeance skill probably works on the same principle as exploding palm, so the damage of the skill is different on mainhand weapon strike and the offhand. However like I said, it's pretty hard to have two weapons with big dmg difference. At least I had no problem with that.

Rain of Vengeance has a 30 second cooldown. Also, I'm starting to worry not about the pure numbers (b/c like you said, most people will dual wield two weapons close in damage/DPS to each other, considering there's no Main Hand/Off Hand mechanic, thus far). I'm going to worry about enchantments. One weapon is cold enchanted, and slows enemies. The other is poison enchanted, and adds poison DoT. When you let loose w/ Rain of Vengeance, what the hell is going on? Or Earthquake? I know most wizard/doctor spells don't transfer the utility properties of elemental enchantments (but do transfer the damage boost), but what about weapon skills like Rapid Fire, Rain of Vengeance, Seven Sided Strike, Ancient Spear, etc?

[Soval]

Snurrfint

Well then. That's pretty disappointing. I guess that most one-handers have similar dps. So this is pretty much only a problem for characters with two very different quality weapons, but still. You don't really want to waste your fury or spirit with the lower quality weapon. To avoid this, you'll have to count every attack.

meh.

The solution then is to not use such an inferior weapon when you are trying to dual wield.

If you make the bad decision to use such a poor piece of gear, you have no one to blame but yourself, it is not the fault of the game that you made that terrible choice. It's not reasonable to complain because you did something yourself that put you at a disadvantage because of your own poor judgement.

In other words, you will only have to count your attacks when you sabotage yourself into that crappy scenario, it's not any kind of inherent flaw in the games's design.

[Grayson Carlyle]

Snurrfint
The solution then is to not use such an inferior weapon when you are trying to dual wield.

If you make the bad decision to use such a poor piece of gear, you have no one to blame but yourself, it is not the fault of the game that you made that terrible choice. It's not reasonable to complain because you did something yourself that put you at a disadvantage because of your own poor judgement.

In other words, you will only have to count your attacks when you sabotage yourself into that crappy scenario, it's not any kind of inherent flaw in the games's design.

You're making the assumption that you have access to an equally good OH.

What if an incredibly powerful 1H just dropped for you, something that would go for $600-800 on the RMAH, but that's not your thing but you want to use it. Your only other 1H is 80% of the DPS of this amazing weapon. The only way you can use your new weapon and not have it be a DPS loss if you go 1H + Shield. That's bad game design.