shrines seed-cycling procedures

**twipley** · 29-10-2011, 11:56

there has been talk recently (see the set of posts starting from there) about seed cycling. more precisely, concerning shrines.

as you may already know, upon game creation certain values are set, which determine the effect of some shrines, for example hidden and enchanted ones. however, those "seed" values change and get cycled as the game progresses, in such a way to render the default, fixed start value more-or-less random. leaving the seeds uncycled gives off certain advantages, such as ensuring shield- and chain-lightning-effecting results.

concerning the procedures that could be used to render shrine values more randomized than that, not much has yet been suggested, except a more-or-less-tested game-rejoining hypothesis. what is needed here might be light, to be shed on such procedures.

there are various ways of testing those, short of fiddling with the source code. one could, for example, hack it so as to render all shrines enchanted, then test from there, as it would be much more convenient to do so that way. another way to bring it to experiment would be to get it to single-player, permitting save-loading abusing.

in short, if you have any information concerning such seed-cycling procedures, be welcomed to share back.

**twipley** · 31-10-2011, 11:55

although it has come to my awareness that the best way of doing so might just remain information sharing.

the only thing i know for sure is once the seeds have been shuffled, it is too late, and one must create a new game for them to be reseted.

i am trying not for them to get shuffled, as i am trying to lower chain lightning on both my rogue and warrior characters. however, i had a hard time in doing so. for example, i have started from cave entrance, and from there up to level 6, where i encountered two enchanteds, but it was too late as they already got shuffled. was it because i had killed unique monsters on my way up, or just because i had gone from caves to the cats?

any success stories not shuffling? how did you do? describe with as much precision as you can. take down notes while playing if necessary.

**twipley** · 31-10-2011, 11:58

i will begin. here is one of my default-value successes.

**HegemonKhan** · 01-11-2011, 09:21

(sorry, but this post doesn't contain any helpful information for you)

wow, that's lucky...

I myself am having trouble getting all spells to slvl 15 for Warrior and Rogue.

I like it best, when I go to dlvl 1 or dlvl 5, right from their town entrances, and there's a nearby enchanted or hidden shrine

. However, trying runs of this, has very low success rates... sighs.

next best is finding a shrine on like dlvl 2 or 6.

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I'm actually not at the point at being at attempting getting slvl 15 for all spells with neither my Warrior nor Rogue, but once I do, isn't the problem with achieving suffling, so that you don't get CL lowered, so you can finally get it, and thus all your spells to slvl 15 ?

so, I'm confused as to why you're trying to prevent suffling from occuring, as isn't suffling what you want so that you don't get CL lowered, and thus so you can achieve slvl 15 CL, and thus achieve slvl 15 for all your spells?

**twipley** · 01-11-2011, 11:08

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

I'm actually not at the point at being at attempting getting slvl 15 for all spells with neither my Warrior nor Rogue, but once I do, isn't the problem with achieving suffling, so that you don't get CL lowered, so you can finally get it, and thus all your spells to slvl 15?

No. It is the opposite, although with the goal of achieving all the other spells to level 15. See, spells on both my rogue and warrior have been at levels 13 to 15 for some time, but every time I am using an enchanted shrine -- and that exactly is where the problem is located at -- one of my level-15 spells gets lowered to level 13. So that means, one would have to have it enough lucky as for either firebolt, healing, or heal other to get lowered, and that, twice in a row. The odds are so small, and the shrines so uncommon, that the goal gets nigh unreachable in practice. You will (please explain if not!) agree with me that the next best thing just might be to let chain lightning be lowered so as to achieve level 15 on all other spells, especially since chain lightning is one of the only spells worth having lowered to level 12 or so, especially for rogues and warriors. The best-chain-lightning-level argument is a long one, but I think level 12 on it -- at least in this case, and for practical shrine reasons -- might just be enough.

On the other hand, shuffling is easy: just rejoin the game (with another char), and it will happen. Perhaps that even the very act of somebody else joining the game is enough for it to happen, too. All I know is that letting somebody else joining the game, and then joining it back using the desired char (in my tried cases, another char), works.

edit: thanks for having posted, and it is my hope that this post clears some things out.

**HegemonKhan** · 01-11-2011, 17:36

yes, thanks, for explaning it to me, I get it now. I wasn't thinking fully about the issues involved. I just knew that it is CL that is often the one selected to be lowered, so at some point, you need to have a different spell get lowered so you can get CL to slvl 15. But, I didn't realized that which you just well explained to me now, hehe. I get it though now, thanks to you.

Though, this isn't my concern right now, as I need to first like to find 7-8 Enchanted Shrines just to get to like slvl 13 with my warrior's lvl 4 spells, lol.

(my main interest is really just getting Teleport up, laughs. As no frequent Teleport ability really hurts the warrior, lol. Low mana due to not finding godly jewelry and a low slvl Teleport spell, argh!)

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right now, I decided to just try to item find, doing norm difficulty laz runs or laz+dlvl 16 runs, looking-hoping for godly jewelry, RC, Awesome+FMP+Suffix, and SS, but I've had no luck.

-I hate how when you try to find something-doing runs for it, you never get it, but when you play casually, just for experience, you get the item you want, lol-argh!

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both things are boring... doing runs for experience and doing runs for items, sighs...

as well as doing runs for enchanted shrines or hidden shrines... sighs...

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and the warrior really sucks compared to the rogue or sorcerer, and it'll take him a long time to get to clvl 45+, high level warrior... argh...

Sorcerer and Rogue can do runs (exp-clearing and/or items) fast, my warrior can't.

all 3 of my characters are clvls ~ 30-35

**twipley** · 01-11-2011, 18:32

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

yes, thanks, for explaning it to me, I get it now. I wasn't thinking fully about the issues involved. I just knew that it is CL that is often the one selected to be lowered, so at some point, you need to have a different spell get lowered so you can get CL to slvl 15. But, I didn't realized that which you just well explained to me now, hehe. I get it though now, thanks to you.

well, i must confess that i did not cognize anything of the fact that it was such a problem to get all spells to level 15 until i was approaching that goal. it is quite a problem, though (laughters).

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

right now, I decided to just try to item find, doing norm difficulty laz runs or laz+dlvl 16 runs, looking-hoping for godly jewelry, RC, Awesome+FMP+Suffix, and SS, but I've had no luck.

-I hate how when you try to find something-doing runs for it, you never get it, but when you play casually, just for experience, you get the item you want, lol-argh!

EXTREMELY SO. at least, from my own experience. absolutely so. [insert any relevant adjective here] so.

from my own experience, furthermore, such armors are quite rare. it is not rare for me to drop them on the ground and part with them if they have no suffix -- unless the base armor and the awesome prefix really are remarkable.

rc can be useful for every class, but especially to rogues. with a good armor, you can almost get to 300 armor class. even with a bow. obsidian of heavens rules, and is not so rare. concerning shields, awesome shield of the tiger works for warriors (i have two 18 such gothics, which is quite fortunate as it is the shield graphic i like most). for the mage you might want to go with resistance shields, instead. that is, unless you are going the staff way. concerning jewels, priority is maxing out resistances, then boosting either mana or stats, either through zodiac, precision, or other such affixes.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

both things are boring... doing runs for experience and doing runs for items, sighs...

as well as doing runs for enchanted shrines or hidden shrines... sighs...

i get what you mean. i personally combined both item hunting and shrine finding -- through hunting for the helm of spirits. i have been unlucky in finding the latter, which gave me time (through serendipitous opportunities) to encounter several shrines in the process.

i personally as much if not more like talking about the game than playing it. both item hunting and experience runs are boring, it must be said that when i started playing i told myself i would only play with other people present with me in a lan. however, through lack of people resources, i have fallen in the boring habits of playing alone. (sigh.)

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

and the warrior really sucks compared to the rogue or sorcerer, and it'll take him a long time to get to clvl 45+, high level warrior... argh...

i get what you mean. i probably will not ever get my warrior over 39 or so. what i am really eager towards, though, is playing with my rogue. see, i have never really played any rogue. but, to my mind the gameplay using her might be one of the greatest.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

all 3 of my characters are clvls ~ 30-35

both my rogue and my warrior are 32, and my sorcerer is 46. i also have a main and a secondary storage (mule) character.

**HegemonKhan** · 02-11-2011, 10:21

I actually am having trouble finding Awesome gear.

So, I'm stuck right now with Resistance Helm and Shield

as I already said, I've got no Awesome FPM nor godly jewelry, either.

so, I'm stuck with ~100 AC, which is not too fun against archers (especially with a warrior who can't Teleport much), lol.

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even NM difficulty Hell (dlvls 13-16) are dangerous, sighs.

so I've been doing a little of Hell Difficulty in the Church/Catacombs, but it's dangerous as well, lots of reset games due to archer monster spawns in the dlvls.

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that's why I'm trying to get items... but I'm not... Laz drops lots of junk, and yet he's the best... argh-sighs...

**HegemonKhan** · 02-11-2011, 11:17

here's my stuff:

Spoiler

**twipley** · 02-11-2011, 11:23

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

so, I'm stuck with ~100 AC, which is not too fun against archers (especially with a warrior who can't Teleport much), lol.

ouch! 100 armor class. that is not a wonder you have difficulties withstanding those two places. i even am considering 200 armor class in the low scale, and that, for every class.

as you would have guessed, armor class is one of the most important stats in this game. once you find goodies, for example like the demonspike coat we had (quite fortunately!) found on our first laz run, it will get easier and easier to visit the lower realms of the hell difficulty. as flux repeatedly states, it is also where the fun is lying at. not for mages, though.