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  1. #21
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    you're not describing diablo 3...

    players can buy what they want and it will give them an advantage immediately and perhaps in perpetuity, there is no redistribution, there is no allocation, there is nothing based upon merit or measure of labour time ( you can put in 100 hours and get nothing or you can put in 5 minutes and find jesus' panties which grant unlimited power, obviously), and there is no production specifically for use in the equip and use way. production and trading for speculation is what they expect and want, go listen to jay wilson say over and over that d3 is an item based trading game.

    plus the speculation and trading is what drives the gah gold sink and the rmah money machine for bliz.


    give up this silliness about socialism... perhaps someone will post what a socialist d3 economy WOULD look like and that would do the trick to convince you but its too late for such imagination from me.

    and with all due respect i'll go with what bliz thinks about what makes a game good and successful, they kinda have some experience there...



  2. #22
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    You do realize you are living in a socialist country right? And we don't enforce any of those hardliner ideals either... Canada is what's called democratic socialism. As the name implies we are socialists with democracy... You don't need to have absolutely every single box checked to be "socialist" or to embrace socialist policy... Blizzard having full control and autonomy over the AH is socialist policy.

    Capitalist = No control, no regulation, the market dictates itself and all enterprise is private enterprise, the government pays for practically nothing, a true capitalist country wouldn't even have a military as protection paid for by the Government is socialist policy. Under true capitalism calling 911 would cost you money on the spot, "Hello, this is 911 emergency, this call will be 4.99 for the first minute and 8.99 for each minute after that, please have your credit card ready"

    Socialist = Government control and regulation on your basic core essentials like the economy, health care, education, blah blah blah. Socialism is based on the premise that there may be some things that people can't provide for themselves and as such accommodations and exceptions need to be made, things like welfare, health care and education should be available to all for the betterment of the country, wealth distribution in its extreme form isn't very common place amongst socialist countries any more because it just isn't viable in a global economy but things like welfare are what you would consider "modern" wealth distribution.

    Communist = Complete government control, no individual rights, property or possessions, everything belongs to the state

    Now, look around the world for examples of any of the 3 "ism's" and you will never find an example that matches your wiki entry, Capitalist countries adopt socialist policies, socialist countries adopt capitalist policies and even communist countries are adopting policies from the other 2 ism's.

    Just because Blizzard isn't doing this or that doesn't mean that their model isn't adopting socialist policy, it is what it is and it has a lot more in common with socialism than it does communism or capitalism.


    Last edited by Concupisco Quaestus; 26-09-2011 at 04:01.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by viledevil View Post
    plus the speculation and trading is what drives the gah gold sink and the rmah money machine for bliz.
    The gold sink disincentivizes speculation. Yes, the 15% gold sink in the GAH will drive the RMAH, not by making it better, but by making the GAH worse.



  4. #24
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    @hubriss - huh? that has nothing to do with what we're talking about nor is it what i said

    @ Concupisco Quaestus - i am quite familiar with the blended systems real world countries have, but it is not relevant to putting a socialist tag on d3. you dont understand socialism if you think that just because bliz makes the **** and sets the rules it makes the system socialist. by your logic any video game is a socialist economy because obviously the game maker sets the rules and creates the ones and zeros.



  5. #25
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by viledevil View Post
    you dont understand socialism if you think that just because bliz makes the **** and sets the rules it makes the system socialist.
    You're entitled to your opinion and I mine, I'd be cautious about "telling" people what they do or do not understand though.

    Quote Originally Posted by viledevil View Post
    by your logic any video game is a socialist economy because obviously the game maker sets the rules and creates the ones and zeros.
    No, other games don't let you make "money", everything belongs to them and you have absolutely nothing, their currency is only for use at their stores and if they catch you trying to make "real" money they basically "kill" you... As far as economic ideology most MMO's are basically communist, there is no "redistribution of wealth" but you, your items, your character, your account and everything all belong to the "state" and you own nothing, every decision is made for the greater good of the company, you have no rights and are only granted what they "give" you.



  6. #26
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    i am cautious, you'll note i have only done it when people are blatantly wrong



  7. #27
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by viledevil View Post
    @hubriss - huh? that has nothing to do with what we're talking about nor is it what i said
    Okay my point might not have been totally clear. Blizzard has to make this game appeal to the greatest amount of players it can right? And how does it do that? By making them happy and comfortable. If there is massive inequality in the pursuit of money in game, then the real money aspect will only appeal to the few people who can benefit from the system right?

    If Blizzard used money as the basis in which they valued their customers and allowed those with money to make all the profit and ruin the chances in the RMAH for everyone else, the majority of players will be extremely discontent with the system, and Blizzard would lose customers. So it is in Blizzard's interest, not only for the sake of their reputation, but for the thriving of the RMAH itself, to make the RM economy as accessible and fair as possible. THAT is socialism.



  8. #28
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by viledevil View Post
    i am cautious, you'll note i have only done it when people are blatantly wrong
    Nobody is ever "blatantly wrong" on a subject that is entirely based on perception and speculation over something that doesn't even exist yet. I've done my best to try and explain my point of view to you, I did not say you are wrong or try to invalidate whatever point of view you may have, merely tried to explain my personal take on things of which you apparently have no tolerance and feel the need to continually downgrade my point of view as being somehow ignorant while offering no real point of view of your own.

    I have no problem with you but if you want to argue against someone else's point in the future it might be a good idea to have a point of your own to offer up other than "omg you dunno anything" replies with minimal substance... Otherwise you're just putting a bad taste in people's mouths and giving off a negative first impression... I've gone more in depth to elaborate my opinion but I've said all I feel I need to on the matter, you are free to believe whatever you want but in the future if you are going to question someone and tell them they are wrong try to have something of substance to offer instead of just telling them they're wrong.

    I do love a good debate though so if you can come up with a stance of your own as to what economic "ism" the AH is going to fall under please feel free to present it.



  9. #29
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    you made a statement on the structure of the d3 economy being socialist in nature. you can be blatantly wrong because you claimed something that is untrue, just like creationists are blatantly wrong, or people who think the earth is flat, etc. I am not arguing with you, i'm saying you're wrong. i already went through and explained a ton of reasons why d3 is not a socialist economy, perhaps go read them and that will correct your misunderstandings on the subject.

    i'm just going to drop it, you guys can continue to be incorrect if that's what floats your boat.

    your opinions on rmt and gaming in general are useful though, keep it up.



  10. #30
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    Re: The Beta AH - Very Inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubriss View Post
    Okay my point might not have been totally clear. Blizzard has to make this game appeal to the greatest amount of players it can right? And how does it do that? By making them happy and comfortable. If there is massive inequality in the pursuit of money in game, then the real money aspect will only appeal to the few people who can benefit from the system right?

    If Blizzard used money as the basis in which they valued their customers and allowed those with money to make all the profit and ruin the chances in the RMAH for everyone else, the majority of players will be extremely discontent with the system, and Blizzard would lose customers. So it is in Blizzard's interest, not only for the sake of their reputation, but for the thriving of the RMAH itself, to make the RM economy as accessible and fair as possible. THAT is socialism.
    they can make it accessible and fair until they are blue in the face but it still wont be socialism. as i said above this is my last post on the subject - if rereading what i wrote doesn't help you understand then perhaps ask a professor if you are still in education.



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