How about different modes in regards to skills/traits/attributes?

[Zeek]

We already have normal and hardcore. How about we push the new skill system to a "casual" mode?

Casual - skills, traits, stats all auto level for you. Everyone's character is the same if they are the same class at the same level except for gear.

Normal - skill, traits, stats use points that are permanent once assigned. "Advanced" features like weapon switch will be included since this mode is not for casual users. Characters can still revive after dying.

Hardcore - same as normal except death is permanent.

All modes would have separate pvp arenas, items, AHs, etc.

Should be a win win for blizzard since it's yet another RMAH to cash in on. There will most likely be players who want a decked out character or two in all modes. If "Normal" mode really isn't fun then no one will play it. No harm no foul.

<rant> Optional "comatose" mode where you just login click "go" and you get to watch the A.I. play for you. Maybe if it's not too difficult they'll let you choose the skills the A.I. character will use. That might be too difficult for the new Blizzard target audience though. </rant>

Thoughts?

[Klocwerk]

We already have normal and hardcore. How about we push the new skill system to a "casual" mode?

Casual - skills, traits, stats all auto level for you. Everyone's character is the same if they are the same class at the same level except for gear.

Normal - skill, traits, stats use points that are permanent once assigned. "Advanced" features like weapon switch will be included since this mode is not for casual users. Characters can still revive after dying.

Hardcore - same as normal except death is permanent.

All modes would have separate pvp arenas, items, AHs, etc.

Should be a win win for blizzard since it's yet another RMAH to cash in on. There will most likely be players who want a decked out character or two in all modes. If "Normal" mode really isn't fun then no one will play it. No harm no foul.

<rant> Optional "comatose" mode where you just login click "go" and you get to watch the A.I. play for you. Maybe if it's not too difficult they'll let you choose the skills the A.I. character will use. That might be too difficult for the new Blizzard target audience though. </rant>

Thoughts?

I like this suggestion a LOT.
I don't see it happening though, sadly.

[Zeek]

Well I admit I'm adding my own personal feeling that autostats suck. So, that probably will never be added in.

However, skill points were in. I'm sure the code is already written. Heck they probably still internally assign levels to the skills as your character levels up. It shouldn't be that difficult on the code. Adding a new mode might take some work, but they've already got hardcore so a lot of the code from that could be ported.

[ChickenPants]

I've read the dev's rationale on getting rid of skill points, traits and stat point and I'm in near perfect agreement with them.

Skill points do lead you to only using a couple of skills from normal mode all the way through to hell. The skill point system means that in order for a skill first given to you in normal to still be viable in hell you have to keep pumping it with points at each level-up. It doesn't make any sense and it negates your other skills.

I'll admit that a little bit of customisation is lost in the exemption of stat points. A minuscule amount. In a majority of cases however, you're just following a pre-designed template. Enough Str for gear, no energy, make enough dex for max block/gear, and the rest cunningly dumped in to vit.

I was disappointed about them getting rid of traits but they said that there were so many of them that they weren't really that meaningful. They feel that a small number of highly significant and affecting passives is the answer. The way I've seen them described makes them seem to be key to to various different builds rather than little perks. They kind of remind me of multi-classing/choosing a second class in other RPGs.

The only reservations I have about the respec system is the ease of use and possible pervasiveness. I really don't want a situation to arise where I'm playing with a pet focused WD only to have him stand still for a minute and suddenly become a some sort of nuker focused build. There needs to be some restrictions placed on skill respecs and I'd personally prefer if the passives you picked were to be permanent.

Laughed at your rant though...It's kind of true. Having no weapon switch in an ARPG released in 2011/12 is ridiculous....

[Zeek]

Well there's two things. First, I agree that we're likely going to see people pause and completely change their build mid battle. Especially right before boss fights. That just seems logical.

Second, I liked having to ration your skills through normal and have trade offs there. Weak character early for powerful character late. Plus you don't have enough skill points to max many skills. With 60 levels and 1 point per level (none for level 1) you get 59 skill points and a skill cap of 15. So you can only max 3 skills. That means you're going to have to make decisions and trade offs. That's more interesting to me than just getting the same skill at level 60 that everyone else gets. Granted that's my personal preference which is why I think different modes makes the most sense.

Heck we can change the names from casual and normal to something like current instead of casual (to remove any stigma) and nostalgic instead of normal.

[ChickenPants]

I'm on the same page as you in regards to how I played D2. It was the most effective way to build a character. I'll also miss the solid choices we had to make in choosing one path over another.

I am willing to at least give this new system the benefit of the doubt however because it will lead to people utilising a far greater range of skills rather than the standard 2 or 3. I always liked characters that were more complex gameplay-wise in D2 so this really appeals to me.

They are really relying on a character's runes to differentiate players of the same class and level from eachother. If they implement the new rune system it will lead to people making hard choices and trade-offs in the case of what rune to use in what skill. Maybe you have a very high level golden rune and only a low level indigo one, you will have to make a decision on what rune will be most effective in what skill and what possible build you can create from that, with no turning back. I really hope they implement those changes. Runes really seem to have become central to character development and differentiation.

They have to bring some hard restrictions on respecs though. I don't want people changing builds so suit their immediate needs. Part of Diablo is dealing with your chosen path's strengths and weaknesses. Hell, what's the point of co-op if you easily min/max every situation.

Blizzard claim that players won't always turn to respecs and will become invested in their own builds of their own accord, even though the only thing keeping them on a certain path other than their own will is a not yet implemented revamp of the rune system....

[Zeek]

Yeah I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'll still buy the game and give this system a shot. I just can't wrap my head around this having any replay value beyond trying all the different classes once. I was playing D2 in 2008 when they announced D3. That game had nearly 10 years of replay value. This one probably won't last one year with this setup. That's kinda sad to me.

[konfeta]

If the build variety is the same or greater, the replay value is still practically same or greater, it just had the mandatory time tax/barrier of having to level up a new character for every new build has been axed. The actual play time per build should be the same (or hopefully greater because they were supposed to make the game more fun to play yada yada).

And you can still start up a new character and level it just for sake of trying out a build from the very start of Normal (though Blizzard will need raise the 10 char slot limit to make this convinient).


You could end up switching between the builds more rapidly, but you will also likely try out more builds, no? You lost play time in one area, got play time fat trimmed if you want to, and gained play time in another area.

[Klocwerk]

Yeah I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'll still buy the game and give this system a shot. I just can't wrap my head around this having any replay value beyond trying all the different classes once. I was playing D2 in 2008 when they announced D3. That game had nearly 10 years of replay value. This one probably won't last one year with this setup. That's kinda sad to me.

Pretty much this.
I was looking forward to a successor to D2, instead it looks like I'll get a fun action RPG that I can play though all the classes of, then move on to something else.

Replay value's minimal from what I can see, unless hardcore's actually really hard unlike D2.

That said, I expect the expansion pack situation will be more like WoW than D2, with a major release every year or two for awhile...

[Zeek]

If the build variety is the same or greater, the replay value is still practically same or greater, it just had the mandatory time tax/barrier of having to level up a new character for every new build has been axed. The actual play time per build should be the same (or hopefully greater because they were supposed to make the game more fun to play yada yada).

And you can still start up a new character and level it just for sake of trying out a build from the very start of Normal (though Blizzard will need raise the 10 char slot limit to make this convinient).


You could end up switching between the builds more rapidly, but you will also likely try out more builds, no? You lost play time in one area, got play time fat trimmed if you want to, and gained play time in another area.

You can still make new characters. However, the fun has been removed. Did you notice that you won't be placing any points in stats or skills along the way? The only thing you'll be doing is getting a new character right back to the same exact spot your old character was at. That doesn't have any appeal to me. If I was going to actually change the build somehow that would be fun. There's no way to do that in the D3 that is being made.