WitchWild String Sockets?

[mysticc]

WWS sucks period.
The deadly strike is not much considering that zons have like 70%+ critical strike already. And amp can be gotten from Atma's scarab, or even a plain reaper on merc for decrep. Brand bow also gives amp I think.
It is maybe a sort of compromise for poorer folks but in that case it is simply better to give up on strafe and go FA/EA with +skills bow

Yeah, i couldn't agree more. It's actually strange that the WWS is very expensive on non-ladder. I know it's probably uncommon there, but still. I find that odd. I only kept it because I thought I could get something for it once it hits non-ladder in a few months (or whenever that happens). I have no intentions of continuing to use it - I just tried it out.

I also use atma's and stuff on my bowazons for the same reasons you gave.

[wickedswami]

Up'd wws is the best weapon for a strafer if that's all you can afford.
Other then that, there's nothing very special about it. It's a budget item.

[mysticc]

Up'd wws is the best weapon for a strafer if that's all you can afford.
Other then that, there's nothing very special about it. It's a budget item.

I agree. The irony is that an up'd one costs more on non-ladder than the lower-budget options. Haha

[SWizard]

I couldn't disagree more about the "WWS sucks" posts. I have a WWS Strafer and she clears The Pit on /players 7 in no time. The thing is, WWS isn't a bow you can simply put in your 'zon hands and call it a day. Minimum support is required, in order to maximize its strenghts. And by support I mean stuff that is great all the time. You just need the right mods and enough of them. Here's an overview:

1. MultiShot. I can't stress this enough. Use Strafe until Amp Dmg procs, then MS the mob. People say MS sucks with WWS because only the two middle arrows carry the %ampdmg, but forget completely that you can simply MS *after* amp dmg procs.

2. AR. This is VERY important. Without good AR, then yes amp dmg will take a LONG time to proc. With 8k or more AR, it procs REALLY fast. I have 8500 iirc.

3. 90% ias total for Strafe, while trying to get to 105% for MS (although that is not as mandatory as 90%). Gotta make the arrows fly.

4. Sharp charms. They go a long way in providing that extra damage and AR. At least half your inventory should be +dmg/ar charms, maybe more.

5. Laying of Hands. Even in areas where demons aren't the majority of monsters, they're still like 50% or more. I'm discounting places like AT, Mausoleum because who runs those with a Strafer? Skeletons can't be leeched off, for example. For the places where you'll use your Strafer, LoH is key and provides a lot of extra damage.

6. High Dex. 350 minimum methinks on a clvl84+ strafer. It goes a long way in making upd WWS the killing weapon it can be.

Also, 70% Critical Strike requires 23 points total, how the heck "zons have 70+% CS already"? In order to get max Deadly/Critical Strike one will need a lot of points in CS, plus Highlord's and Gores, and STILL not have max chance for double damage. All WWS needs is 1 point in CS and the DS mod it has. It's much better in that regard. Plus, it clears the Amulet slot for a godly rare/craft or Cat's Eye, which adds 35 dex, a HUGE bonus to dps.

And thanks to max DS/CS and amp dmg, WWS deals four times its damage (it's actually more because of the way amp dmg works, iirc. If I'm wrong I apologize). I have ~800-1200 listed damage, with a 2x Shael upd 155% WWS with Might Merc and Fort and I dominate in areas such as The Pits. WWS is definitely viable, of course it's not going to be better than Faith Merc + WF or Pride and Might Merc + Faith, but I think it's single-handedly the best end game physical bow in the game after WF and Faith.

[stephan]

In your post there is not one point that is specific to WWS. All bows benefit from more dex, max damage charms etc.

The problem with WWS is that it is outdamaged by a non-upped Buriza (and even more by an upped Buriza) by such a large factor that the few times Amp actually does proc doesn't make up for it.

[zaphodbrx]

^^exactly.
I used an unupped buriza for my first LF/strafe zon and was much more satisfied with it.

[SWizard]

The MultiShot when the mob is amped is a way to kill quite fast with WWS that I don't know if most people use. Most guides dismiss it by saying "only the middle arrows carry amp" and as a result I think many build a WWS strafer without MS, and that is a benefit that is lacking.

And amp dmg isn't just another critical/deadly strike multiplier, it removes phys resistance and even breaks some immunities. This makes quite a difference. The only way to get that without WWS is Atma's, which takes the ammy slot for amp dmg alone. Plus, WWS + 1 pt in Critical Strike = max % of double damage. Other bows will need Deadly Strike from gear, a lot of points in CS, and still not hit the 100% (or is it 95%?) max % without some *serious* investment in DS gear and CS points.

Also, Buriza is slower than WWS and takes way more IAS to be satisfying:

Bow 0 second-to-last fastest Strafe sequence:
4,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2+5, 90 IAS required

Crossbow 10 second-to-last fastest Strafe sequence:
6,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,3,4+5 175 IAS required

Buriza comes with a maximum 100 IAS if Shaeled, so you need 75% more to still be slower than a 2x Shael WWS which only needs 50 more ias.

Tell you what. I'll try the Buriza on my WWS Strafer and get back. I'm fairly positive that WWS will outdamage it, but I'll believe you and try it out.

[stephan]

The MultiShot when the mob is amped is a way to kill quite fast with WWS that I don't know if most people use. Most guides dismiss it by saying "only the middle arrows carry amp" and as a result I think many build a WWS strafer without MS, and that is a benefit that is lacking.

I find strafe lacking. The problem for me was not the damage after amp. The problem was getting something amped in the first place.

And amp dmg isn't just another critical/deadly strike multiplier, it removes phys resistance and even breaks some immunities. This makes quite a difference.

It doesn't make a difference if it doesn't proc reliably. Add to that you can always have a reapers merc which *will* proc decrep reliably.

Plus, WWS + 1 pt in Critical Strike = max % of double damage.

No. Critical and Deadly strike don't stack.

Also, Buriza is slower than WWS and takes way more IAS to be satisfying:

Also, the avg damage of a Buriza before any effect is more than double that of an upped WWS.

Bow 0 second-to-last fastest Strafe sequence:
4,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2+5, 90 IAS required

2 frame strafe doesn't work for bows server side. 3 frame is max.

Crossbow 10 second-to-last fastest Strafe sequence:
6,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,3,4+5 175 IAS required

Same here. 4 frame strafe is max for x bows.

You don't have to lecture me on numbers. I know them by heart by now.

[SWizard]

stephan, I didn't mean to lecture you, sorry if it came out that way. It's just that you are ignoring (or simply aren't aware of) onderduiker's posts about Strafe's IAS, which is more complicated than the whole 3/2 or 4/3 frames thing, even if you know the numbers by heart

First, WWS procs VERY often in my experience. You just need to have a decent AR. I have ~8700, clvl88, and the monster I hit less often in The Pit are skeletons, which I hit 85% of the time. Devilkins 89% and the archers/dark stalkers I have a 95% cth. Amp dmg procs VERY often under those conditions. It's like I said in my other post, max penetrate and enough AR from gear is a must to make WWS viable. When a weapon's biggest strenght is the ctc amp dmg, you have to optimize that in order to justify using the weapon. Have you tried WWS with a chance to hit of 85% and more?

From what I've read in the Amazon forum, Critical and Deadly Strike stack, just not linearly (simply one plus the other). First DS is applied. If it works, CS is ignored. If it fails, CS is applied. A clvl 85% WWS Strafer with a 32% Critical Strike (1 point +2 skills) has 85% + 15% x 32% chance to get double damage, which isn't 100%, I know, but is still more often than, say, an Amazon with 48% Deadly Strike (33 from highlord's plus 15 from Gore's) and 61% from Critical Strike (which is slvl13, and more than that is often unrealistic when you also want/have to max penetrate, valk, a bow skill, and also get the prereqs and pierce).

With 85% DS and 32% CS, there's a 89,8% chance to get double damage (which is why I said it is "max" chance, because this is only 5,2% away from the max 95% chance, and this is considering you have a slvl3 CS only, and your character is clvl85 only).

With 48% DS and 61% CS, there's a 79,72% chance to get double damage. This is 10% less, you need to have Gore's as your boots and a slvl13 CS, while the WWS Strafer has WWS, 1 pt in Critical Strike, and only +2 to all skills from gear.

And from onderduiker's posts, Strafe is a lot more complicated than "2-frame doesn't exist, ignore it". He says that the slvl of Strafe matters, the number of mininum and maximum arrows fired matters, and the ammount of monsters in the mob also matters. Getting 90% IAS with a Bow 0 won't get you a "2-frame attack" but it can ineed give you a faster attack/damage. Check onderduiker's posts and tables.

[stephan]

Sorry, but onderduiker's post does not conflict with mine. If so you think so, please quote the relevant part. It's rather important, because the damage difference of 2 vs 3 fpa or 3 vs 4 fpa is rather large.

Now, if you'd actually do the dps calculations, then ignoring amp Buriza does around 50% more damage than an upped WWS. That's a lot to make up for with 2% ctc amp especially considering you can simply take the decrep merc.

The max chance to do double damage is 100%.