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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member vknez's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    smiter 50:50, hehe. i guess they are some pvm tristram builds...
    any random equiped semi skiled will kill you in 2-3 smites thanks to your low life/dr. smite/charge is uninterubtible btw...

    cave man? you want last long here with that attitude...
    i sad max/ar/life are useles cause max dmg will not give you any extra for that build

    also i m not negro...

    you tele stomp bowas? nice. they are crap if you managed these. multi will take care of your sumons fast...

    also i m not fat man...

    i see you dont know how fhr lock is working, and you are not aware of wsg

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogenarian View Post
    cave man
    mother****er ;
    negro
    fat man



  2. #12
    IncGamers Member Orion's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Unbelievable that his post was flamed. Bad manners and a Bad attitude. Too bad you can't SQUELCH the guy like in GAME. The guy won't leave - it's like he's here to stalk you omg --- squelch, squelch .......isn't working!!!

    Octogenarian - just fine tune this Bear with some of the HELPFUL and
    INSIGHTFUL information given. Jary knows his stuff when it comes to bears.
    The fact is that you know your FC/Summoner better than any of us due to the fact that
    you have different equipment and a different setup. My stats/skills are slightly different than yours and my equipment is alot different. My dex is up there with Botd PB, Black oak luna, 2 Ravens, Mara, anni/torch. I wear a COH, Jalals, Venom Grips, Gores, and Arach.


    I love the BOTD PB in PVM for FC - not sure how that would translate to PVP because I haven't tried it against any good players. I beat a couple of people up with mine in PVP but they were not PVP seasoned nor am I. I did the same think to them - I summoned Griz on top of them and ran up SW and beat em till they dropped which is the most likely PVP stategy for me at the time. Which was right after we beat Baal and decided to try and kill each other lol. But it pumped up my ego that day lol. So I know this works especially if you get used to the strategy in PVP.

    BTW in my build, I left out the FCR. I have way less than you. Is is worth the trade off and are you casting summons that much faster? I have spirit shield (27 fcr) and Dark Clan Crusher on switch - for summoning and casting, plus arachnid - that was it - no other source of FCR on my Bear.


    Last edited by Orion; 11-06-2011 at 05:40.

  3. #13
    IncGamers Member vknez's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    i m not flaming and calling names...

    i m only playing pvp last few years on europe non ladder, after few years of single player pvm and few years of pvm bnet. at the moment i have those pvp chars:
    fury/rabies lvl 94
    bow hybrid lvl 94
    wolfbarb lvl 93
    zerker lvl 94
    bvb lvl 91
    bvc lvl 91
    liberator (hammer/charge) lvl 92
    smiter lvl 89
    ghost lvl 92
    bearzon lvl 90
    assa bear lvl 90
    infinity nova lvl 90
    fire tal lvl 89
    necro nova lvl 90
    zealot lvl 90

    all those chars are fully equiped. i played some chars before, but dished them:
    boner
    winder
    pure hammer
    fireclaws
    zeal/bear sorc
    trapper
    fire druid
    blizzard sorc

    so i have wide knowledge of what diablo chars can and can not do in pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I summoned Griz on top of them and ran up SW and beat em till they dropped which is the most likely PVP stategy for me at the time.
    this will not work in real pvp situation, vs any char...
    spirit is bad as blocking shield since it dont have any faster block on it
    tele around with grizly, recast to bear, shockwave people...it takes time, and during that time oponent will not just stand still waiting to be smacked...




  4. #14
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by vknez View Post
    smiter 50:50, hehe. i guess they are some pvm tristram builds...
    any random equiped semi skiled will kill you in 2-3 smites thanks to your low life/dr. smite/charge is uninterubtible btw...

    cave man? you want last long here with that attitude...
    i sad max/ar/life are useles cause max dmg will not give you any extra for that build

    also i m not negro...

    you tele stomp bowas? nice. they are crap if you managed these. multi will take care of your sumons fast...

    also i m not fat man...

    i see you dont know how fhr lock is working, and you are not aware of wsg
    Dude you obviously have never encountered Shockwave before in PvP. It doesn't matter if a smiter can kill me in 2 shots, he can't get near me without charging and i'm going to be Shockwaving anyway to halt that; are you expecting that I'm going to just stand still and let your Smite hit me?. It prevents them from getting to me 95% of the time i spam it and kite them; I don't know where you are coming to these conclusions that your character is immune to it, it works just as well as an interupt against 40,000+ defensive rating eth-exile smiters that 2 shot mother****ers (who doesn't die to an insanely geared/probably modding smiter?). I even use it to stop desynched chargers from invisi-slapping me all the time. The point is I've used it to keep smite/chargers at a distance from me on a daily basis for almost a year with great success, why don't you watch Jary's video and actually see the skill in action.

    Max Damage does affect the build; half of the damage I output is physical (i.e. dependent on weapon damage to scale), so adding maximum physical damage from the small charm actually does affect how high my top-end damage can grow to because I am not pure Fire Claws and rely on both my weapon damage as well as my Fire Claws damage to achieve maximum output. In this setup the damage bonus from Fire Claws is substantially lower than it would be normally as a pure FC Druid, so it is a must that I use a melee weapon (and some melee small charms) to be effective.

    Also avoiding multi arrow is as simple as teleporting to multi's max range or even teleporting in a clockwise/counter-clockwise movement at any range around the amazon (this even lets your bear take swings at her while you're avoiding her shots).

    WSG isn't as effective while you are using charge against Shockwave; you would be constanstly shifting between charging, being interupted, weapon switching, charging and on top of that I'm throwing an FHR lock at you which is definitely going to be more effective if you are switching to your BO gear setup a lot (i.e. using WSG), so it's definitely going to hit you at least once in the time it takes for you to get near me during your keyspam and one good Shockwave is all I need to start moving away from you (plus I can just pivot around you near some moor puddles and be good2go :/). It is possible if you use smite against me instead and run/WSG to get through Shockwave, but again you keep thinking that I'm going to be standing still the whole time waiting for you to stroll up and hit me. I guess that super-intelligent battle strategy from the 1700's that started somewhere in Europe (standing two armies in a field that take turns marching/shooting each other right out in the open) carried down the genetic ladder and got stuck with some kid playing the most easy-mode character on Diablo 2 (stand still so I can swing at you bro).



  5. #15
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I love the BOTD PB in PVM for FC - not sure how that would translate to PVP because I haven't tried it against any good players. I beat a couple of people up with mine in PVP but they were not PVP seasoned nor am I. I did the same think to them - I summoned Griz on top of them and ran up SW and beat em till they dropped which is the most likely PVP stategy for me at the time. Which was right after we beat Baal and decided to try and kill each other lol. But it pumped up my ego that day lol. So I know this works especially if you get used to the strategy in PVP.
    Yeah I have a BOTD PB for the IAS breakpoint and it's pretty legit, but the eth zerk is still better overall because of the higher damage. Epic story lol, it's the best feeling ever when you KO somebody with it

    BTW in my build, I left out the FCR. I have way less than you. Is is worth the trade off and are you casting summons that much faster? I have spirit shield (27 fcr) and Dark Clan Crusher on switch - for summoning and casting, plus arachnid - that was it - no other source of FCR on my Bear.
    For PvM FCR isn't as necessary for the build, but I still use it when I glitch rush people and nothing ever hits me because i can stun most of a full room of monsters in like 2-3 seconds; the trade-off for FCR benefit from your other equipment becomes much better with an enigma (way more mobile with teleport) and yes you do summon much faster, which does save time if your summons die in PvP and you are being chased/have to re-summon at the same time.


    Last edited by Octogenarian; 11-06-2011 at 18:26.

  6. #16
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    vknez
    tele around with grizly, recast to bear, shockwave people...it takes time, and during that time oponent will not just stand still waiting to be smacked...
    Why you haven't thought about this in your earlier posts especially in relation to any of the hypothetical situations you've said to me, I'll never know.



  7. #17
    IncGamers Member vknez's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    smiters dont need to use wsg, smite/charge is uninteruptable
    i see you never encountered telesmite
    from your posts i see you have poor knowleadge of pvp.

    your physical damage with botd is augumented by werebear casting skill level, how level and total strength and it is around 850-2500 (without deadly which you dont have on equipment). average damage is around 1700, and average pvp damage is 350. this is usually further reduced by 50 % from oponents dr to 175.
    so 140 average pvp physical damage is really low. removing those 2*3 max scs will lower your maximum pvp physical dmg by 6 pvp dmg...

    and thats all counting that HOW is alive, which will die preaty easily (even high lvl) in one hit. without HOW your average pvp damage is 160 reduced to 80 with 50 % dr...
    and thats with botd 403 ed berserker axe as you stated, which is turbo slow hiting 9 fpa with your equipment (vs 110 ias pb which is more then twicer fast)




  8. #18
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by vknez View Post
    smiters dont need to use wsg, smite/charge is uninteruptable
    i see you never encountered telesmite
    from your posts i see you have poor knowleadge of pvp.

    your physical damage with botd is augumented by werebear casting skill level, how level and total strength and it is around 850-2500 (without deadly which you dont have on equipment). average damage is around 1700, and average pvp damage is 350. this is usually further reduced by 50 % from oponents dr to 175.
    so 140 average pvp physical damage is really low. removing those 2*3 max scs will lower your maximum pvp physical dmg by 6 pvp dmg...

    and thats all counting that HOW is alive, which will die preaty easily (even high lvl) in one hit. without HOW your average pvp damage is 160 reduced to 80 with 50 % dr...
    and thats with botd 403 ed berserker axe as you stated, which is turbo slow hiting 9 fpa with your equipment (vs 110 ias pb which is more then twicer fast)
    Charge isn't uninteruptable, make a game on east and I'll show you real well; I use it to keep paladins from getting to me all the time, and how are you talking **** about a character I play constantly as if you know everything when you have no knowledge or experience pertaining to playing as/against the character for yourself. Also, telesmiters weren't a part of the conversation we've been having at all, so why pull them out of the blue now? Everybody gets stomped by telesmiters; 95% of them use auto-aim so it doesn't even matter. You just seem like you want a reason to be pissed off at somebody

    850-2500 damage on a botd after all those modifiers? LOL

    Dude with a 403% ebotdz regular attack that has bearform and average level HoW multiplier i hit for 1449-4422 damage; that's a 2,935 damage average, equating to 645.1 PvP damage. After opponents' Damage Reduction I do 322.56 damage with a regular attack, NOT 140; your calculations are off by more than double your listed average damage amount.

    I'll even calculate the additional Fire Claws damage for you since you need somebody to hold your hand through remedial arithmetic and statistical calculations:

    Fire Claws hits for 6788-7439 additional fire damage; that's a 7113.5 fire damage average with 1778.38 PvP fire damage.

    Overall Raw PvP Damage after modifiers and DR negations: 322.56+1778.38= 2100.94

    Btw HoW is amazingly quick and easy to recast (duh summoner) so if it dies why wouldn't I just throw up another? Losing it even gives me a chance to throw up Oak Sage for survivability.

    Properly Explained* Max Damage modifiers:
    Max Damage is effectively useful on this type of bear because all damage modifiers that are skills affect your total weapon damage only after it has been calculated from your own stats in addition to your gear's stats; Max Damage is useful to me because I have a high damage modifier: 690% damage with fanat from Beast (at least 504% otherwise), which works out to

    [6.90*(Whatever my weapon damage range is, which is comprised of Max and Min Damage)]

    **Because my Max and Min Damage are both calculated into an overall damage statistic, they can both be affected individually by additional +Max/Min Damage from gear (i.e. the small charms you mentioned) and, in turn, may be modified by previously mentioned damage modifiers (such as HoW or Bearform). So:

    [6.90(1.0)] = 6.90?!?
    ^
    1 extra point of Max Damage = 6.90 points of Max Damage after HoW/Bearform

    So that +3 Max Damage on my ar/hp Small Charm you knocked actually ends up being 20.7 max damage, yielding a higher Overall Damage Average as well as extra Max Damage.

    Also, you argue a 110% ias pb is greater than an ebotdz just because it's faster, but 110 pb only works effectively with pure fireclaw; I do significantly less fire damage than a pure build so I must rely on a weapon with at least some damage on it (not a 110 pb). My favorite part about your argument is that you didn't even look to see that I do have a 110% ias gris caddy (gcaddy > pb because it actually has some damage to multiply from), and it is used quite frequently/successfully.

    It really seems that you made a lot of mistakes when trying to determine my own damage for me; I'm sure many of them went like this: assuming that my listed base stats actually included any extra points I might receive from my gear, not reading/logically processing/understanding the point of this post, not researching/acknowledging/understanding my very neatly written build/gear lists when arguing against my post (for some reason) using invalid calculations, and being a stereotypical, rude, snotty European.

    P.S. - Twicer isn't a word


    Last edited by Octogenarian; 12-06-2011 at 03:36.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member Orion's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Octogenarian

    6.90(1.0)] = 6.90?!?
    ^
    1 extra point of Max Damage = 6.90 points of Max Damage after HoW/Bearform

    So that +3 Max Damage on my ar/hp Small Charm you knocked actually ends up being 20.7 max damage, yielding a higher Overall Damage Average as well as extra Max Damage.

    Also, you argue a 110% ias pb is greater than an ebotdz just because it's faster, but 110 pb only works effectively with pure fireclaw; I do significantly less fire damage than a pure build so I must rely on a weapon with at least some damage on it (not a 110 pb). My favorite part about your argument is that you didn't even look to see that I do have a 110% ias gris caddy (gcaddy > pb because it actually has some damage to multiply from), and it is used quite frequently/successfully.
    I read yours clearly. A EBOTDZ adds a heap of damage to a FC build(making if effective). For that fast paw - 110ias Griz Caddy > 110ias PB because of the stats/damage. Good points on both! I'm likin' your foresight in picking weps! I might be makin an EBOTDZ to check this out.


    Orion
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I summoned Griz on top of them and ran up SW and beat em till they dropped which is the most likely PVP stategy for me at the time.
    Vkinez
    this will not work in real pvp situation, vs any char...
    spirit is bad as blocking shield since it dont have any faster block on it
    tele around with grizly, recast to bear, shockwave people...it takes time, and during that time oponent will not just stand still waiting to be smacked...
    I use a Azurewrath// Black Oak Luna Shield w/ 50% FBR BTW as primary. Spirit/Dark Clan Crusher - on switch- just to summon (clearly in my post). Also kill bosses with up'd ribby. But EBOTD PB is my fastest but the least used. I beat the barbs with the Shael'd Azurewrath. Not bad for a PVM Bear. But what I didn't say is that my merc is a lvl 94 barb with LW PB, Shaft, Arreats (all crap but the mods rock). Thats why I want the EBOTDZ - Might, HOW, WB, FC = lotsa damage! + lifetap.


    Noob Barbs tele around people - what are you smokin? Misquoting people and making up the rest? Man - Stalk some other people --- SQELCH!


    Last edited by Orion; 12-06-2011 at 08:08.

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member stephan's Avatar
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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogenarian View Post
    850-2500 damage on a botd after all those modifiers? LOL

    Dude with a 403% ebotdz regular attack that has bearform and average level HoW multiplier i hit for 1449-4422 damage; that's a 2,935 damage average, equating to 645.1 PvP damage. After opponents' Damage Reduction I do 322.56 damage with a regular attack, NOT 140; your calculations are off by more than double your listed average damage amount.

    I'll even calculate the additional Fire Claws damage for you since you need somebody to hold your hand through remedial arithmetic and statistical calculations:

    Fire Claws hits for 6788-7439 additional fire damage; that's a 7113.5 fire damage average with 1778.38 PvP fire damage.

    Overall Raw PvP Damage after modifiers and DR negations: 322.56+1778.38= 2100.94
    All these calculations are incorrect. PvP penalty reduces damage to 1/6 (17% really). 3000 average damage become 510 PvP damage or 255 after %DR. 7200 fire damage becomes 1224 fire damage which is 306 fire damage against someone with normal res (if he doesn't choose to increase his max res).

    Total average damage is therefor around ~550. Assuming your original figures are correct.




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