Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

[Nightfish]

I might even try Fire Golem this time. I've always loved Gumby because he is such an awesome tank and he slows everything, and didn't see the point in using one of the others when he is so useful.

You'll see how vastly superior the Fire Golem is for questing, don't ye doubt that. Although that matters more for non-skelliemancers. I noticed that a *lot* with my travincal running Poisonmancer. Not only does the FG survive hydra, but EVERYBODY hates him because of his HFire aura.

1) How much crushing blow on your merc do you need to be effective?

The CB is only really needed for Baal himself - especially if you've got a decent weapon. I always found one CB item to be plenty. Guillaume's Face was all I really needed. At worst your run is 5 seconds slower, which barely matters if you clear WS K 2, 3 and the Throne completely.

2) Do you recommend clay golem or iron golem for WSK/Baal running? How important is it to have the slowing ability on clay golem?

I've always used the Iron Golem once I could "afford" him. If I could not afford one, I'd use Fire Golem for areas and the Clay guy for bosses. It doesn't hurt to have the CG but I didn't find it really *necessary* if you cast Decrep on Baal. Either way works fine.

[Nightfish]

MANY skills do become "better" with more players

No. They don't. Also you've missed the point pretty much completely. The only skill that is more effective on players 8 is static field. Everything else does exactly as much damage on p8 as it does on p1. If your Poison Nova does 2k Damage on p1 it does 2k Damage on p8 as well. It doesn't miraculously do more damage per cast. Same for pretty much every other skill.

People tended to diss CE on p8 because it was based on monster's life of the p1 setting. They used to think CE was hit much harder by p8 than other skills which is bull****.

That doesn't mean running on p8 is smart, it's pretty much always a dumb idea but it's still a point that deserves mentioning.

[hubb]

People tended to diss CE on p8 because it was based on monster's life of the p1 setting. They used to think CE was hit much harder by p8 than other skills which is bull****.

While this is something that people should most definitely take note of, I think he meant skills become better not in the sense that their damage scales absolutely with the player count, but that they become a better choice because of how their damage is applied. Like we know, at /p1 you basically just need your merc to pop a corpse or two and everything dies, while at higher player counts he suggests it worth-while to focus on revives.

[Nightfish]

I know what he meant but it's 1) wrong and 2) not what I was talking about in the statement he was disputing. The few times I run stuff above p1 I'm still faster with CE than I am with revives. This should be fairly obvious. You can figure this out easily with math or empirically through testing. 4th corpse clears the screen, pretty much. Often the second CE will already produce a third corpse to get the chain reaction going. Good look topping that with 4 revives. Once the screen is indeed clear there's nothing wrong with getting a few revives and dragging them along if you so chose. But saying revives > CE above P1 is kinda... eh.

[MYK]

The only pack that ever slows me down in WsK3 are those Stygian Fury types because they always spawn PI and they can mow down a mercenary fast if you're not on the spot with Attract to correct the battle.
Any tip or tactic that I'm missing out on here? I almost felt like rebuilding for mages, just for the extra speed against these things. Hrm.

I leveled up with 1 in CE and stayed that way for some time. Later on, after most of Hell, I dropped the other 19 points in and it's just amazing how well it does. It's just unfair in 1.13.

[nurman]

I personally suggest that ALWAYS get mages. If not for elemental damage, for more meatshields.

[Nightfish]

Yea, those things can be a bit iffy. But by the time you get there you should have 10-12 skellies and a golem so your merc shouldnt take too much heat. Attracting one and amping the rest is what I do as well and that works well for me. On p1 they do drop pretty fast due to CE. If you can give your merc a crescent moon that can help as well and is generally a pretty good idea if you want go p3 for some reason. If you're not that fast on the attract you can always go ahead and use dim vision. I personally I don't need it but this seems like one of the few times it might be worth casting.

You can try to respec for mages, but those guys are not going to help your killspeed there or anywhere else. Still if you have 2 respecs, go for it. One to try the mages and the other to get rid of them once you find out just how bad they are. If you need more meatshields, get revives. Mages just suck, doubly so for this build.

[hubb]

If you already have sufficient revives then CE is obviously what you should do, but I don't think this is always possible due to their useless AI. With higher player counts I mean above P6 where a FI mob can sometimes take quite a beating before they go down... But I'm not in the mood for arguing, and I guess the point that it's a terrible idea to play at those player counts still stands in any case.

[OsyncO]

That doesn't mean running on p8 is smart, it's pretty much always a dumb idea

This is something I'm fuzzy on - the cost/benefit ratio of p1 vs p8. Your statement implies there are situations where p8 makes sense.

[Entwilighter]

This is something I'm fuzzy on - the cost/benefit ratio of p1 vs p8. Your statement implies there are situations where p8 makes sense.

Players 8 never makes sense. When running Normal Cows for joolz, however, players 7 is the place to be.