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View Poll Results: What kind of buffs do you prefer?

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  • Long duration, always on type

    16 44.44%
  • Long duration, absorption type; enemies can remove this buff

    2 5.56%
  • Short duration, long cooldown "emergency" powerful buffs

    11 30.56%
  • Active skills that require a proc before you can use it

    3 8.33%
  • Don't know

    4 11.11%
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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member cacophony's Avatar
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    Buffs, procs, and auras.

    So going over the Twitter madness over Revenge on the front page, I started mulling over buffs, auras, and other kinds of positive, indirect skills player characters have used over the years in Diablo and other games. There are several types we've seen thus far, and I wanted to know which ones were the most interesting to people here. Let's look at the types.

    Type A: Long duration, short/no cooldown, persistent buff. Possible secondary effects.
    -These are your Chilling Armor spells, and Barbarian Warcries. You'll always have them active in any situation. D2's UI never let you know when they were about to fall off, which was annoying.
    -Monk/Paladin/Druid auras fall into this category, although they are generally mutually exclusive; the strategy comes into which aura to use in which situations. Given the 7 skill limit, most monks probably won't have more than one or two.
    -Assassins also had persistent, always want them buffs, but were also mutually exclusive (couldn't use Burst of Speed and Fade at the same time).

    Type B: Long duration, short/no cooldown, absorption buff. Possible secondary effects.
    -Bone Armor and Cyclone Armor. Buffs that you'd want to keep up all of the time, but couldn't due to monster interaction.
    -This can also include proc armors that have limited charges; Lightning Shield in WoW can be "used up" when something hits the Shaman enough times.
    -In WoW, absorption mechanics (Death Knight Blood shields, Priest shields) are on timers and have cooldowns. From what I've seen in the PvP videos, Wizard Diamond Skin also is on a timer and has a cooldown. More on this below.

    Type C: Short duration, noticeable cooldown. Generally, the duration is shorter than the cooldown; the buff is designed to fall off.
    -"Oh crap" buttons defensively, or "I have to go to the bathroom so let's kill everything in this room NOW" buttons offensively.
    -Examples: Ignore Pain (defensive), Bloodlust from WoW (offensive), Sprint (either; running away or catching a runner).
    -These can generally be much more powerful than Type A or Type B, b/c they are designed to never be up 100% of the time. Damage absorption may have crossed that threshold, especially in PvP.

    Type D: Active skills which can only be used after procs or other conditions. May or may not have a cooldown.
    -The Revenge skill which started this whole discussion.
    -Very tactical, but needs special care and polish to make it work; good UI elements to let the player know it triggers are critical. Also, a timer to give the player a chance to push the appropriate button is almost mandatory.

    So which kinds of proc skills/buffs do you guys prefer? Which are most fun?



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    Type A: always active, mutual exclusive buffs.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    Type A

    Hate those buffs that last 10 seconds and have 30 minutes cooldown no matter how powerful it is.



  4. #4
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    This is a completely non-commital reply, but when the question is this general, I have to go with all of the above. I want there to be a variety of different types of bonuses, procs, auras, shouts, etc. As seems appropriate for each skill or character.

    Once we know about more specifics it'll be fun to debate how they work or how they should/could work.



    --Flux
    The Diablo 1, 2, & 3 Wiki! (Under construction.)


  5. #5
    IncGamers Member AxeX's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    I like the different strategies that can be used with skills that use method C, but as Flux said, a mixture of all of the above is usually best.

    Also, Flux, why is it that I'm redirected to a D2 forum thread when I vote in a thread poll? And is it being fixed?



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member cacophony's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux View Post
    This is a completely non-commital reply, but when the question is this general, I have to go with all of the above. I want there to be a variety of different types of bonuses, procs, auras, shouts, etc. As seems appropriate for each skill or character.

    Once we know about more specifics it'll be fun to debate how they work or how they should/could work.
    I agree completely that there are going to be multiple kinds and types. I just wanted to get a gauge on what style of buffs people found fun. I think the new seven skill limit really magnifies this; you only get to pick seven skills, so you should be sure all seven of them are fun and interesting to use.



  7. #7
    Diablo: IncGamers Member
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    Quote Originally Posted by AxeX View Post
    I like the different strategies that can be used with skills that use method C, but as Flux said, a mixture of all of the above is usually best.

    Also, Flux, why is it that I'm redirected to a D2 forum thread when I vote in a thread poll? And is it being fixed?
    @AxeX: It is a Known forumbug which cannot be resolved. The easy work-around is: Vote -> Backspace -> F5.

    OT: I'm still missing the 'All of the above' option....



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Moonfrost's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    It's a matter of preference, it doesn't say picking one automatically removes all the others from the game. Anyway, here are my thoughts:

    Type A is basically a passive buff in disguise; it lasts for a long time but you still need to refresh it occasionally. It's one of the most boring types of buffs imaginable because, psychologically, the player gets used to the buff always being up, so whenever it wears off, it naturally annoys them. Logically, when buffs last this long, they might as well be completely passive, but no; the designers didn't have the courtesy of sparing you the annoyance of refreshing the buff every few minutes.

    Type B is only slightly better because once again the player gets used to the buff constantly being up, so refreshing it because something of a compulsory action in the end. I say "slightly better" because it still requires more player input than A, which makes it more tolerable, but ultimately these skills are better off with a longer cooldown, so the player can focus on using other, more interesting skills in combat.

    Type C is once again better than the previous type, as these skills can no longer be depended on due to their short duration/long cooldown. They add a bit of strategy and complexity to gameplay, which is a good thing. The player tends to save these for critical moments, as they should - "popping cooldowns" whenever possible is inefficient, so it's a way for the good players to distinguish themselves from the rest.

    Type D is by far the best because its conditional, reactive nature adds further complexity to gameplay. It adds the element of randomness to skill usage and that's very important as it breaks up the typical skill rotations that tend to make combat boring. The key to making a good, conditional skill is making sure it triggers often enough for the player to benefit from it, but not so often that they start to depend on it. It's a very fine balance. Granted, these skills work best as a complement to the other types of skills - you need some go-to skills before you can add conditional ones - but other than that they're the most interesting ones from a gameplay PoV.

    So yeah, D.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member Yersinia Pestis's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    Out of the above, C seems the best to me.
    We only have 7 active skills, and something that is always on is not really an active skill to me, so for me it would seem as if I would waste one of my few skill slots for something that should be a passive.
    C is fare more interactive and therefor wothy as an active skill

    I kind of agree with Moonfrost on Type D. Those skills CAN be very good, but it is very hard to design/balance/whatever. And I think as long as they don't figure out a good way to integrate those skills they shouldn't touch them.



  10. #10
    IncGamers Site Pal Bad Ash's Avatar
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    Re: Buffs, procs, and auras.

    I seem to like always on buffs personally, but it takes away the reasoning for why its a skill. It should just be a passive ability if its always on. Short and powerful emergency buffs could be fun but could just lead to running around waiting for it to stop the cooldown in emergency situations




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