Weapon IAS frenzy

[sonofjohn]

I'm trying to reach 5 frames frenzy max on my barb and am wondering if the IAS on the weapon applies to the other weapon as well?

If I had a weapon with 30 IAS, would it apply to my other equipped weapon?

Does frenzy change this at all?

[krischan]

For frenzy, it just depends on the IAS of the primary weapon. The other one needs none at all, but its base speed has an effect.

[sonofjohn]

Thank you for the information krischan. How does the base speed of the second weapon factor in?

[krischan]

I'm not sure. Maybe the average of the two weapons is taken for both attacks or the weapons simply have a different speed. There's probably a sticky in the barb forum with further information, else ask there

[onderduiker]

For frenzy, it just depends on the IAS of the primary weapon. The other one needs none at all, but its base speed has an effect.

I'll probably regret bringing this up, but the conventional wisdom that only the IAS of the primary weapon is used to calculate Frenzy's attack rate only holds when the primary weapon's attack (the first in the two attack sequence) misses, or gets blocked: when it hits, the secondary weapon's IAS is also used to calculate attack rate.

Some of the details can be found in last year's Calculator Inaccuracy for Frenzy Attack Speed thread here, although the main investigation took place in a topic of the same name in the Amazon Basin's Technical Discussion forum (and included input from TitanSeal himself). At this point his calculator hasn't been updated, but he has uploaded a script which should calculate Frenzy's attack rate breakpoints accurately (although you have to register with inDiablo.de to download it).

The calculator should be accurate still when using weapons with the same WSM and IAS, though.

[krischan]

Hmm, I never noticed that my frenzy barbs hit at a slower rate when the primary hand hits and I've used BotD+Death setups, i.e. with one weapon having 60%IAS and the other none at all. However, that's not a kind of experience which I would regard as a proof that you are wrong :azn:

[sonofjohn]

onderduiker, thanks for the information, i'll check it out

[onderduiker]

Frenzy is a sequence of two attacks, and the IAS of the primary weapon is always used to determine the length of the first attack in that sequence: it continues to be used if that first attack misses or gets blocked, but if it hits then the IAS of the secondary weapon is used to determine the length of the second attack in that sequence. Obviously this means that the primary weapon's IAS is still more important, and when the secondary weapon's IAS is used it only determines the length of the second attack.

Consequently, the practical difference normally isn't that great (which is one of the reasons I thought I'd regret bringing it up). Assuming level 27 Frenzy (45 EIAS once fully charged), Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe (60 IAS) as primary weapon and Death Berserker Axe (0 IAS) as secondary weapon, then according to TitanSeal's Attack Speed Calculator a further 45 non-weapon IAS is required for maximum 10 frame attack rate when the first attack misses. According to the script posted by TitanSeal (and quickly confirmed by testing), 89 non-weapon IAS is required for maximum 10 frame attack rate when the first attack hits (for which players are aiming as often as possible), but only 39 non-weapon IAS is required for 11 frames.

I'd be surprised if anybody noticed a difference between 10 and 11 frames while playing, particularly since that's the combined length of two attacks and Frenzy has to charge up before it reaches those speeds. The difference in effective attack rate between a consistent 10 frames at 89 IAS and 10-11 frames at 45 IAS depends on chance-to-hit:

CHANCE-TO-HIT   EFFECTIVE ATTACK RATE (45 IAS)    INCREASE AT 10 FRAMES (89 IAS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          75%                            10.75                             6.97%
          80%                            10.8                              7.4%
          85%                            10.85                             7.83%
          90%                            10.9                              8.25%
          95%                            10.95                             8.67%

Against monsters with block any increase would be further reduced, particularly against Act bosses: a Barbarian with 75% chance to hit Baal in Hell would have 55% of hits blocked, resulting in a 10 frame attack rate 66.25% of the time, so going from 10-11 frames with 45 IAS to 10 frames with 89 IAS would only result in an approximate 3.26% attack rate increase.

[sonofjohn]

Thank you for the information once again. If a monster blocks a frenzy hit, does it reduce your attack speed? Stun you for a second? Or, do you just continue hitting like it never happened?

[onderduiker]

If a hit is blocked, the Barbarian will continue to Frenzy without interruption but, with the example I used, the first attack being blocked would result in the primary weapon's 60 IAS being used to determine the length of the remainder of the attack sequence animation as well, resulting in a total length of 10 frames and not 11 frames with just 45 off-weapon IAS.

However, obviously it would be better for both attacks to hit for 11 frames (averaging 5.5 frames per hit) than for the first attack to miss (averaging 10 frames per hit)... and better still to get the 89 off-weapon IAS actually required for a consistent 10 frame attack rate regardless of whether the first attack hits or misses.