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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member squall78's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Question (maybe be dumb or not)

    Why is an eth fleshripper worth more? It doesn't have self-repair, so I am curious (also because I have a non-eth and eth one)




  2. #32
    IncGamers Member Jason Maher's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    One word: Furysin. Blade Fury doesn't use durability, and 2-handed weapons get their damage nerfed majorly, so eth Fleshripper owns.



  3. #33
    IncGamers Member squall78's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    AH that's the reason why. I was thinking that it was zod'ed but the properties on it aren't super great. It's a nice weapon switch to get the cb, slow and -def going on Baal runs.




  4. #34
    IncGamers Member RobbyD's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Suggested update in value:

    Code:
    1.07/1.09 Raven Claw - Gul
    Why?

    I've sold 3 1.09 Raven Claws for a 1.13 Gul Rune each. The new rune availability is not fully reflected in the current quoted value, IMHO. It only went up 1 rune when rune availability increased significantly more than double.



  5. #35
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyD View Post
    Suggested update in value:

    Code:
    1.07/1.09 Raven Claw - Gul
    Why?

    I've sold 3 1.09 Raven Claws for a 1.13 Gul Rune each. The new rune availability is not fully reflected in the current quoted value, IMHO. It only went up 1 rune when rune availability increased significantly more than double.
    Some of it may have to do with the availability. I haven't played .09 since forever, and I have 2x 07/09 RCs. Back in 1.12x I was happy to buy or sell them at Mal + Pul each, so your looking at a decent gain from then to now




  6. #36
    IncGamers Member Pyrohemia's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyD View Post
    The new rune availability is not fully reflected in the current quoted value, IMHO. It only went up 1 rune when rune availability increased significantly more than double.
    The new rune availabilities are complicated. Higher runes are many times more common than they used to be and no longer follow a clear an rapidly increasing rarity curve. Even so, we still tend to judge runes up to Lo in terms of cubing value which does not reflect true rarity. 1.10-1.12a runes are also complicated because of the hell forge and prevalent hell forge rushing. I think that runes Ist-Gul are actually less prevalent now than in 1.12a because no one hell forge rushes. Even with them less prevalent they seem to be worth less because they are valued by their cubing order down from Lo runes. That all goes to say that multiplying by four to follow rarity isn't such a clear and obvious solution.

    This doesn't mean that the value of 1.09 Raven Claws hasn't possibly gone up in fixed terms or that Raven Claws weren't possibly being undervalued in 1.12a.



  7. #37
    IncGamers Member RobbyD's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrohemia View Post
    The new rune availabilities are complicated. Higher runes are many times more common than they used to be and no longer follow a clear an rapidly increasing rarity curve. Even so, we still tend to judge runes up to Lo in terms of cubing value which does not reflect true rarity. 1.10-1.12a runes are also complicated because of the hell forge and prevalent hell forge rushing. I think that runes Ist-Gul are actually less prevalent now than in 1.12a because no one hell forge rushes. Even with them less prevalent they seem to be worth less because they are valued by their cubing order down from Lo runes. That all goes to say that multiplying by four to follow rarity isn't such a clear and obvious solution.

    This doesn't mean that the value of 1.09 Raven Claws hasn't possibly gone up in fixed terms or that Raven Claws weren't possibly being undervalued in 1.12a.
    I have to take issue with your reasoning - if runes are valued down from Lo by their cubing order, then multiplying by 4 does actually seem to me to be the solution.

    The fact is that runes are much more prevalent across the board, so just going up 1 rune in value for something that has a fairly fixed source/value (time-travel to 1.07/1.09) seems to me to undervalue that item with the new rune availability.

    At any rate, I've sold 4 1.09 Raven Claws for a Gul each, so a simple supply/demand argument would point to that value at this point, IMHO.



  8. #38
    IncGamers Member Pyrohemia's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    As this is debating the value of runes it does have some connection, if tenuous, to the main topic. I hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyD View Post
    I have to take issue with your reasoning - if runes are valued down from Lo by their cubing order, then multiplying by 4 does actually seem to me to be the solution.
    No, multiplying by four is not a clear solution.

    Rune drop rates when a monster drops from Runes 17 (Zod).
    Code:
    Rune		1.13b Chance (1 in X)		1.10 Chance (1 in X)
    Jah			1320.9			15758.2
    Ber			1475.8			13510.7
    Sur			983.9			9007.1
    Lo			1091.4			7723.0
    Ohm			727.6			5148.6
    Vex			766.5			4415.6
    Gul			511.0			2943.7
    Lo runes are slightly more than 7 times more common in 1.13c (equal to 1.13b). Gul runes drop close to 6 times more often.

    This does not reflect the true change in values.

    1.12a Gul runes were severely depreciated by hell forge rushing such that hell forge rushing a Ber was better than running for one. A Ber is 32 Gul runes and dividing 13500 by 32 gives 421, showing that the value of a Gul in 1.12a was at best that as if it dropped as one in 421 runes, but likely much lower. That is even lower than the current rate in 1.13c.

    The dramatic drop in rarities of the high runes in 1.13c and corruption of the rarity curve has made hell forge rushing completely uneconomical. The value of a 1.13c Gul is now mostly determined by the value of a Lo as a Gul has little inherent usefulness. A Lo rune has a rarity of 1091, and as it is 8 Gul runes a Gul has a practical rarity of 136. This is a third of the maximum value for that of a 1.12a Gul.

    While the real value of a 1.12a Gul is not precisely known, its maximum possible value shows that the transfer from 1.12a to 1.13c is absolutely less than three times.

    The value shift for Ist runes is even more complicated as Ist runes have fairly significant inherent usefulness.

    I am still neither supporting nor denying that a 1.09 Raven Claw is fairly valued at a 1.13c Gul.



  9. #39
    IncGamers Member Nepenthe's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    What is their worth? (if any)
    • plain
    • with 2os

    Code:
    Fool's Blade Talons of Quickness 
    Blade Talons 
    One Hand Damage: 10 - 61 
    Durability: 69 of 69 
    Required Level: 38 
    Required Strength: 50 
    Required Dexterity: 50 
    Fingerprint: 0x62a114b8 
    Item Level: 99 
    Version: Expansion 1.10+ 
    +40% Increased Attack Speed 
    +47 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level) 
    +1567 to Attack Rating (Based on Character Level)


  10. #40
    IncGamers Member RobbyD's Avatar
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    Re: SP(T)F Price Check guide 1.13c Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrohemia View Post
    As this is debating the value of runes it does have some connection, if tenuous, to the main topic. I hope.



    No, multiplying by four is not a clear solution.

    Rune drop rates when a monster drops from Runes 17 (Zod).
    Code:
    Rune		1.13b Chance (1 in X)		1.10 Chance (1 in X)
    Jah			1320.9			15758.2
    Ber			1475.8			13510.7
    Sur			983.9			9007.1
    Lo			1091.4			7723.0
    Ohm			727.6			5148.6
    Vex			766.5			4415.6
    Gul			511.0			2943.7
    Lo runes are slightly more than 7 times more common in 1.13c (equal to 1.13b). Gul runes drop close to 6 times more often.

    This does not reflect the true change in values.

    1.12a Gul runes were severely depreciated by hell forge rushing such that hell forge rushing a Ber was better than running for one. A Ber is 32 Gul runes and dividing 13500 by 32 gives 421, showing that the value of a Gul in 1.12a was at best that as if it dropped as one in 421 runes, but likely much lower. That is even lower than the current rate in 1.13c.

    The dramatic drop in rarities of the high runes in 1.13c and corruption of the rarity curve has made hell forge rushing completely uneconomical. The value of a 1.13c Gul is now mostly determined by the value of a Lo as a Gul has little inherent usefulness. A Lo rune has a rarity of 1091, and as it is 8 Gul runes a Gul has a practical rarity of 136. This is a third of the maximum value for that of a 1.12a Gul.

    While the real value of a 1.12a Gul is not precisely known, its maximum possible value shows that the transfer from 1.12a to 1.13c is absolutely less than three times.

    The value shift for Ist runes is even more complicated as Ist runes have fairly significant inherent usefulness.

    I am still neither supporting nor denying that a 1.09 Raven Claw is fairly valued at a 1.13c Gul.
    Wow - I will readily admit that I am way over my head in debating you. There is a very specific type of theory involved here that I will admit I don't fully understand. I think a team of mathematicians and economists would be well served to investigating D2 economy (no sarcasm here - I consider myself pretty smart, but I feel well and truly served by your argument).

    However, I have sold 5 1.09 Raven Claws for a 1.13c Gul rune each.

    Without getting into a proof of the change in value of a Raven Claw (which I am very admittedly not up to), I will submit that res ipsa loquitor the value of a 1.09 Raven Claw is a 1.13 Gul rune.



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