Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 48
  1. #1
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    37

    so called d2 pvp skill

    ok my other thread was closed, i wasn't trying to troll, i apologize if you think i am.

    to quote sassa
    This is the kind of comment that makes people think you have no knowledge of any pvp.
    the fact is that i do,
    d2 pvp comes to these facts knowledge of the game, gear, and eye hand coordination, which pretty much exist in all humans its naturally inherited i wouldn't call that a skill.

    i do agree and accept people that they pvp for fun, but saying its skill requisite is just silly.

    i have made a very good analogy in the old thread, if you still think skill>gear
    try a very poor bvb no charms just items against a deck out best possible gear pvp both players have the same knowledge of the game, it is indisputable that the second one will always win 100% of the time.

    this goes for all builds in general, also someone said trading hits is inevitable i agree with this since its true when it comes to trading hits its, its all the gear and luck talking i don't see where it is skill based.

    while claims like tal sorc,griswold paladin,ik maul can kill people in public games is just not silly but also you forgot the public population of bnet is mostly stupid, so killing stupid people can't quite considered skillful if i dare say.

    you can have all the knowledge of a typical fighting game but when it comes to the actual fight, this is where you put your skills to test, since alot of factors comes in to play,

    zoning,baiting,patience,outsmarting,being able to execute,keep calm,figuring the opponents style, knowing each character matchups etc.

    there is no where to run, there is no crutches to help you only skilled will saved you in a well balanced game.



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chucktown
    BattleTag Sass-1761
    Posts
    6,383

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    You still don't get it. Read your thread again and try to pay attention.




    Nobody has said that a naked (having white items + no charms is basically naked) will win with any consistency. In fact, we don't expect them to win.


    You're basing your arguments on examples that don't exist. Nobody will try to win with white items; they will try to win with budget items at the minimum. White and no charms are NOT budget items.



    You can only do serious pvp with the minimum of budget gear. This gear hits your FCR & FHR breakpoints as well as IAS and damage if you use that. Plain boots and rings won't get you any FHR or FCR

    Still, you don't need fcr rings with +40 life, +30 on a couple res, +90 mana, + 20 str or dex or that stuff. It's nice, but you can use a regular stat + fcr ring in it's place.



    Let's use an example: All gear is optimal maxed out stats on both people, but there is one item different--a circlet. One has a super expensive one, the other just a plain 2/20. The expensive is mediocre at pvp, but ends up with ~300 life more somehow (just play along). The 2/20 user is better than him, but doens't have that ~300.

    The one with better skill is the winner, regardless of having inferior gear. Skill levels are roughly close, so maybe a 5-2 ish ratio as the best case scenario. It won't be the 100% 5-0 by the lesser skilled person like you have been talking.





    This skill factor is why Tal's users have a possibility of winning in the first place. If it was a gear based game, they would lose to people with hoto's, enigma, mass stats on rings / circs, etc. Nobody's said they rape games, but good players do acknowledge they can be played well in the right hands.

    Skill will overcome gear differences, but never has it been said that it can make a naked char rape a pub.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member frozzzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    Gear plays role in PvP, but not like you imagined. There are minimum requirements for PvP build. For necro helm that would be Shako. It is cheap, and great. You don't need 2necro/20fcr/30str/20allreist/2os circlet in order to preform well in PvP. Circlet would help, but it is not instant win just cause your oponent uses Shako.
    For BvC minimum req are Grief+Grief+Enigma from those higher end items. You don't need 37 x 3/20/20, and they won't guarantee you any win. You will face some great sorceress player that can have barely 200 fcr and if you don't have skill you will never catch him. No matter if he has 10 x plain fire skillers and not nearly as wealth as you. You won't land a single hit on him.
    He will destroy you and you will walk away in shame together with your godly charms.

    Why are you always puting BvB in your example? In those melle builds gear is key for winning, but in random pub dueling it should not. Besides any build has weakness and even best geared Windy won't be able to defeat semi decent trapsinn consistently. Gear is not only thing that keeps PvP going.
    Well, try playing bone nec vs bone nec. It is mostly about mind games and skill; gear won't matter to much since both of you will die very fast. Better gear will give you chance to take hit or two more, but skill will give you way to dodge ten attacks that would have hit less skilled person.

    Skill > Gear. End of story. You lost.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member vknez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wolfen Empire ~~~~~~ Croatia
    Posts
    2,740

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    so what is the point of this topic?
    it's not all about items and it's not all about skills. and everybody forget one thing - luck. chance to roll hit on opponent

    i have trang necro which is damn cheap, have max block on 170 frw run speed, max resists, bone armor and can drop 90 % of opponents to 1 hp with 1 nova

    btw people duel sometimes with total crap items--> ironman lvl9




  5. #5
    IncGamers Member SeCKSEgai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,956

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    Quote Originally Posted by gurnison View Post
    ok my other thread was closed, i wasn't trying to troll, i apologize if you think i am.

    to quote sassa


    the fact is that i do,
    d2 pvp comes to these facts knowledge of the game, gear, and eye hand coordination, which pretty much exist in all humans its naturally inherited i wouldn't call that a skill.

    i do agree and accept people that they pvp for fun, but saying its skill requisite is just silly.
    That is honestly the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Not to mention the grammatical errors in the sentence alone. Grammar aside, if the knowledge is common, then it would never need mention, yet a multitude of guides exist for builds and game mechanics. Thus, a logical conclusion is that this knowledge is not commonly known and in no way naturally inherited.

    [QUOTE=gurnison;7594331]while claims like tal sorc,griswold paladin,ik maul can kill people in public games is just not silly but also you forgot the public population of bnet is mostly stupid, so killing stupid people can't quite considered skillful if i dare say. /[Quote]

    So if the public population is stupid, what ever happened to your naturally inherited argument?

    If everyone else is dumb except for yourself, wouldn't that make you dumb for arguing with dumb people because it is in fact dumb to argue over something dumb if you know its dumb?

    I can't even believe you think hand-eye coordination isn't a skill. What do you think largely separates say... a marksman vs the average joe when firing a gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by gurnison View Post
    you can have all the knowledge of a typical fighting game but when it comes to the actual fight, this is where you put your skills to test, since alot of factors comes in to play,...

    ...there is no where to run, there is no crutches to help you only skilled will saved you in a well balanced game.
    Seriously.... ugh.

    You don't seem to grasp the general concept of pvp. In order for pvp to even be possible, you need to have at least two human opponents - I.E. player 1 human and player 2 human with opposing goals.

    That's pretty much it.

    Just because you don't like the pvp dynamic and disagree with its design, doesn't make you right. There's no doubt that pvp was an afterthought in D2.

    But has it not once occurred to you that the people you're trying to convince actually have played or still play games other than Diablo 2? Cmon man, the game is 10 years old.

    A well-balanced game isn't as simple as you think. A lot of testing goes into it, and over time adjustments are made through patches or new versions. Think about it, how many Street Fighters or Marvel vs Capcom's or whatever fighting game have been released? Unless its just bad and/or ripoff (cough sammygames) its not always perfect balance at release.

    Pvp in fighting games typically don't revolve around gear, as that element is taken out completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurnison View Post
    zoning,baiting,patience,outsmarting,being able to execute,keep calm,figuring the opponents style, knowing each character matchups etc.
    Of all the things said, this takes the cake. If anything is common knowledge for pvpers, what's said above should be, regardless of the game. What makes you think that those don't factor in, even in D2 pvp?

    But like one of those dumb bnet players, I'm arguing over the internet over something stupid =P



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    143

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    Compare D2 pvp to any other sport...

    Get the best equiptment you can and then the person with the most skill can squeeze out a better performance...

    Have you tried playing Starcraft 2 yet? PVP is pure skill because both players start out evenly matched...



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    37

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    [QUOTE=SeCKSEgai;7594708]That is honestly the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Not to mention the grammatical errors in the sentence alone. Grammar aside, if the knowledge is common, then it would never need mention, yet a multitude of guides exist for builds and game mechanics. Thus, a logical conclusion is that this knowledge is not commonly known and in no way naturally inherited.

    [QUOTE=gurnison;7594331]while claims like tal sorc,griswold paladin,ik maul can kill people in public games is just not silly but also you forgot the public population of bnet is mostly stupid, so killing stupid people can't quite considered skillful if i dare say. /

    So if the public population is stupid, what ever happened to your naturally inherited argument?

    If everyone else is dumb except for yourself, wouldn't that make you dumb for arguing with dumb people because it is in fact dumb to argue over something dumb if you know its dumb?

    I can't even believe you think hand-eye coordination isn't a skill. What do you think largely separates say... a marksman vs the average joe when firing a gun?



    Seriously.... ugh.

    You don't seem to grasp the general concept of pvp. In order for pvp to even be possible, you need to have at least two human opponents - I.E. player 1 human and player 2 human with opposing goals.

    That's pretty much it.

    Just because you don't like the pvp dynamic and disagree with its design, doesn't make you right. There's no doubt that pvp was an afterthought in D2.

    But has it not once occurred to you that the people you're trying to convince actually have played or still play games other than Diablo 2? Cmon man, the game is 10 years old.

    A well-balanced game isn't as simple as you think. A lot of testing goes into it, and over time adjustments are made through patches or new versions. Think about it, how many Street Fighters or Marvel vs Capcom's or whatever fighting game have been released? Unless its just bad and/or ripoff (cough sammygames) its not always perfect balance at release.

    Pvp in fighting games typically don't revolve around gear, as that element is taken out completely.



    Of all the things said, this takes the cake. If anything is common knowledge for pvpers, what's said above should be, regardless of the game. What makes you think that those don't factor in, even in D2 pvp?

    But like one of those dumb bnet players, I'm arguing over the internet over something stupid =P
    zoning,baiting does not work in d2 because of how its design.

    have you ever kill anyone naked in public if it is not revolve around gear? and have you ever enter any game tournaments? sbo or evo for street fighter?

    and whats grammar have to do with anything, so if my grammar is not good i am automatically wrong?

    you do not understand what is competitive gaming at all.

    d2 pvp is not competitive, at most you are comparing gears.

    because there are alot of more games out there that needs actual skill and doesn't need to waste time getting items to be pvp viable that is why i ask why people bother with it.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chucktown
    BattleTag Sass-1761
    Posts
    6,383

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    If d2 pvp isn't competitive to you, then get out of the pubs. After you experience actual pvp, then you'll understand that it isn't a comparison of gear in the slightest--it's a comparison of skill.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    37
    You can only do serious pvp with the minimum of budget gear. This gear hits your FCR & FHR breakpoints as well as IAS and damage if you use that. Plain boots and rings won't get you any FHR or FCR
    no you don't get it, my point was exactly this, d2 pvp is 100% item oriented, if you think other wise proof me wrong.

    you being able to beat people with minimal gear is not skill at all, you know the game mechanics better than them that is it, the items do the rest.

    you can know every move in street fighter and know the game but its entirely up to skill, it takes years and years of effort to master the game, unlike d2 all it takes is the best items and knowning how pvp works

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post
    If d2 pvp isn't competitive to you, then get out of the pubs. After you experience actual pvp, then you'll understand that it isn't a comparison of gear in the slightest--it's a comparison of skill.
    post a video of you naked winning someone 1 vs 1.

    ever pvp 1.09? slow perma ga zon with poison> anything

    d2 pvp is about abusing items and overpower skills, ever duel a hammerdin with medic with out whinning how he duels? i doubt it, why should he duel in your favor?

    eventually you will run out of mana with any given character, unless your the same build as he is.

    a hammerdin can just make one rule and practically win against any build, no pots allowed.

    but we can't have that can we? because your all scrubs with self made rules.


    Last edited by Uncle_Mike; 01-07-2010 at 07:56. Reason: double post

  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chucktown
    BattleTag Sass-1761
    Posts
    6,383

    Re: so called d2 pvp skill

    You keep reverting to the known-to-be-false example of skill equalling killing naked...I suggest you read.


    BTW, if a hdin can't pot, he's screwed. His only hope is to meditate near blood raven while I'm still in the blood moor.




    Let's ask you a question though. Do you duel anyone with skill?



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •