Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

[Fabian]

scottee, I'm assuming 68% Deadly Strike (33 from Highlord's, 20 from Grief, 15 from Gore Riders). I'm assuming level 22 Whirlwind and Sword Mastery (no idea if this will be right or not, close enough I figure). I assume 31% Critical Strike (hopefully in the right ballpark). Level 90, 200 Strength/150 Dexterity as a base comparison point:

Shadow Edge (with 40% Ruby Jewel): 1770 - 4003 (avg 2886)

eth 1.13 Oath Balrog Blade (avg roll): 1451 - 7442 (avg 4446)
eth 1.13 Oath BB (perfect roll): 1700 - 8718 (avg 5209)

eth 1.07 Oath Balrog Blade (avg roll): 1451 - 8433 (avg 4942)
eth 1.07 Oath BB (perfect roll): 1700 - 9710 (avg 5705)

The extra AR boost is handled; I put you at 264 Strength for the Shadow Edge setup (319 extra AR means 319/5 = 64 less points spent in Dexterity -> 64 more points spent in Strength). Similarly, the Oath setups had 220 Strength (100 AR means 20 more points to spend in Strength). I don't know about the Enchant charges though, so I ignored that. Can't imagine it doing a whole lot of difference, then again I'm often wrong

Oh and btw, a Cryptic Sword does less damage. I recommend using a Balrog Blade, and trading for an 1.07 eth version probably isn't too expensive.

Finally, just for more comparison, here's the damage a Grief Phase Blade does under these same conditions (back to 200 Strength):

1.13 Grief PB (370 roll): 7912 - 8025 (avg 7968)
1.13 Grief PB (400 roll): 8481 - 8595 (avg 8538)

Hope these numbers help you decide.

[nulio]

My Barb is finally reaching Hell

So with a Beast and from all the numbers in the thread, a Grief is better than an Oath?

[Ashmer Amadeus]

I've got some questions about Trav running. I've been running for six or seven levels already and he has found a large amount of runes (in my mind at least). I found a Lo rune yesterday, and have the ability to cube a second one. This means I can make 2x Grief. Or that I'm very close. I'm curious as to what weapon would be best. I've already used all three respecs while questing, the third to make him able to run Trav in the first place. I'm currently built to use Oath Balrog Blades. I don't have the spare points for using phase blades, and I've maxed out Sword Mastery so while I have the stats for a Zerker I wouldn't have the mastery for it. I've got 3/4 of the essences, so I figure I'll end up respecing that way. So I guess my questions are this:

1. Grief > Oath correct? I think both of my Oaths are decent rolls (297/314ed) Assuming I get the minimum +damage roll would it still outdamage the Oaths?

2. How much free space to have? I'm currently using half of my inventory for AR and damage charms, plus the Gheeds Fortune. Is it better to use more AR/Damage charms?

3. I'm currently using Metalgrid as my amulet. Primarily because of the large amount of AR. I have 78%cth on the Trav guys. I'd drop it for a Highlord's Wrath, but then my CTH drops to 72%. Being that Grief has -25% to enemy def would I be able to switch to Highlord's for the extra damage instead of the AR from the Metalgrid.

4. I could, in theory make 2x Grief Zweihander. It would still require a respec to use it, but I figure there is a respec in his future no matter what. He will have almost paid for the two griefs. He has found Lo, Ohm, Gul. I know that making them in Zweihanders means that no other character could feasibly use it. Are Zweihanders better enough to warrant making them into griefs over Phase Blades?

5. 105 FR/W. I put one point into increased speed and that along with my items I have a total of 105 FR/W. While I enjoy it in town, I find it to be a negative while whirling. When I respec, its better to drop back to 75? I don't think I can go any lower, not without changing my gear around. And @75 I seemed to be okay whirling. It feels like going from 75 to 105 passed about four breakpoints.

6. Before putting the point in Increased Speed (and the subsequent point in Increased Stamina) I had 4 spare skill points. What to do with them? I've maxed Sword Mastery, Whirlwind, Battle Orders and Find Item. After all prereqs and such the build is done at level 85. Is there any other good skills to put points into. I put one into Berserk to deal with the PI that happens fairly frequently. Is this a good place to dump the points? I don't currently use shout, and I don't need the extra duration it provides to Battle Orders, but maybe it will help the merc? Or maybe Iron Skin?

7. I'm using HotO/Spirit on switch. This boosts my Battle Orders and allows me to hork @55%. I'm assuming that 55% is enough?

8. I have 2231 hp after BO. I think I could safely lose ~300hp and feel good about it. I expect I'll have to lose a bunch if I'm going to respec to use Grief PBs. After my gear I have 404 str. Can I afford to lose some str as well as some vitality in order to use the PBs?

9. I run Trav @ P3. I expect the reason for running @ P3 is the same reason you run Meph @P3. It minimizes the chance for a no-drop. This is correct?

10. Why is it that MDR is so important for the merc? It makes sense to me that the hydras deal fire damage, and it looks like there might be some lightning damage in there as well from the council. Why is it that MDR is helpful?

[Schmaleop]

Nothing comes close to Grief as far as avg dmg is involved, it will dwarf even Oath's.

Respecs are easily farmed so just pick what weapon you prefer, noting the speed requirements in each case, and whether you want to use the Atma bug.

[ZeN]

I can't answer everything (and others are probably more equipped to do so) and some of it is just my gut (which has been wrong in the past) but:

1. I have a feeling that in almost any possible setup Grief would be better than Oath (see Fabian's post above). I also have a feeling that Fortitude + 2xOath > no-Fortitude + 2xGrief so perhaps you shoud get that first, but don't quote me on that

2. I have 2x4 open space + Cube. I pick up a lot of junk.

3. Grief => metalgrid or teleport ammy. No Grief => Metalgrid is probably better over time.

4. You can' have more respecs if you wish - all you have to do is collect 4 unique "charms" from 4 (5 actually) act bosses: Andariel/Duriel, Meph, Diablo and Baal (each drops a different one - except Andy and Duriel who drop the same if I am not mistaken) - cubing them all gets you a respec "scroll" which you can than use on any char (but you probably know that - seeing as you think about respeccing for the 4th time). They also drop them very frequently.

5. How on earth did you get 105 FRW?!? 1 point in skill + Gore Riders should get you to around 55 - 60 tops (after +skills). What other gear of yours have FRW? Additionally - FRW doesn't have BPs, IIRC, it's a continuous improvement (and a somewhat complicated to compute). And, yeah, FRW does interfere with WW, so less it better.

6. I put all my remaining points in Natural Res. Let's you play more with the gear (specially jewelry), IMO.

7. 55 is what is considered a good amount. I don't think you can get much higher with the diminishing returns and it being already maxed.

8. 2K life seems kinda low to me (my barb has 3K), but some do just fine with that.

9. Most do. Horking is p7 anyway, so unless your run time at p7 ~= your run time at p3 - there is little reason to run it on p7 or p5.

10. IIRC MDR does affect fire damage.

[Ashmer Amadeus]

1. Grief being better then Oath means I need to find 2x 5os Phase Blades. Is 1.07 the same as 1.1x in terms of damage?

2. I could probly do with less space, I'll have to see what else I have for Steel GCs. I could probly get by with 2x4 plus the cube

3. With the grief I will likely use Highlords. Griefs -25% def will hopefully compensate for the loss of AR

4. I'm only missing Mephs essence. I'm sure I could get it, I just need to gear up the old blizz sorc and run him a few times. Baal and Duriel have both been generous with the essences considering how often I've killed them. My only kill of Duriel since 1.13c has yielded 2 essences.

5. I use Enigma for armor. That carries 65 FR/W. I like it in town, and running towards the council members, I just don't like it while whirling.

6. I think I'm at a point already where each point in Natural Resist is only going to be worth 1 res. Not worth it for me. I'm sure I could handle having a few points unspent

7. If I made a second HotO I might be able to get to 56%, but considering the absurd amount of wealth on this guy I think I'll stick with the HotO/Spirit.

8. If I get back to 2k after my respec I'll feel plenty comfortable. I'm sure 350 STR will be sufficient. Not that I'd be able to trust the LCS. Or my own maths. I'll just have to go with how the runs feel. But I expect the runs to go better by switching Oaths for Griefs.

9. This is what I expected. Same concept as running Hell Mephisto @P3. I'm comfortable with 3, and haven't tried any higher.

10. I get that MDR helps against the fire damage, but I don't understand the why. Bone Spear is magic, I understand MDR helping vs that. Hydra should be fire, and MDR doesn't seem like it should make any difference. It works, and thats great, but I don't understand it. Probly doesn't matter much as my moron uses Eth GA, Reapers and Kira's.

[scottee]

Thanks for helping me avoid the awful headache I would have had if I'd had to do all that math, Fabian. I guess if it had been eth self-repair, it would have been a possibility. As is, I'm going to use it to level until I find/ trade for an Oath base.

Oh, and btw- I actually meant colossus sword rather than cryptic sword, I should have been more clear there.

[mesmerPT]

For Trav running i believe at least 1 weapon has to be Grief. That's some nasty, hurty stick. Mine is a 385 damage roll and at players 3 they fall fast. The other weapon is a Lightsabre, i don't have Azurewrath.

I'm also running Mara's instead of Highlord's because it's not safe enough when i face Conviction. I wish i could do something about this...

[Fabian]

Some more damage number comparisons

I've been pretty convinced that it's better to make a Grief than a Fortitude, if it's for your Travincal runner. Since I've seen many recommendations to make a Fortitude anyway, I wanted to take a closer look at the damage numbers.

I've assumed a level 90 character wearing Gore Riders, Laying of Hands and Highlord's Wrath. I've also assumed a base Strength of 200, and I've added 20 Strength for each Oath you wear (since 100 AR means 20 fewer points spent in Dexterity -> 20 points more in Strength). I've assumed level 22 Whirlwind and Mastery and 31% chance of Critical Strike. For the weapons, I've used three different types; eth 1.07 Oath Balrog Blade, 1.13 Grief Phase Blade, and 1.07 eth Grief Berserker Axe. For each, I've used the average damage roll and the perfect damage roll

Small unimportant note about an inaccuracy in the numbers below:

Spoiler

The observant will notice I've mixed Swords and Axes when I use a Grief BA and an Oath BB. I was too lazy to do calculations for 1.07 eth Oath BA's as well, I included the Grief BA mostly to compare to the Grief PB. If you're using an ebugged 1.07 eth BA, you're clearly doing more damage than any Oath+Oath+Fortitude setup anyway, so it shouldn't matter too much that these totals are based on Sword + Axe. Just compare the BA Grief's damage to the PB Grief's, if anything.

2 * Oath + Fortitude
avg rolls
Weapon 1: 1770 - 10280 (6025)
Weapon 2: 1770 - 10280 (6025)
Total: 12050

perfect rolls
Weapon 1: 2072 - 11834 (6953)
Weapon 2: 2072 - 11834 (6953)
Total: 13906


Grief PB + Oath + Not Fortitude
avg rolls
Weapon 1 (Oath): 1451 - 8433 (4942)
Weapon 2 (Grief): 7767 - 7846 (7806)
Total: 12748

perfect rolls
Weapon 1 (Oath): 1700 - 9710 (5705)
Weapon 2 (Grief): 8349 - 8428 (8388)
Total: 14093


1.07 eth Grief BA + Oath + Not Fortitude
avg rolls
Weapon 1 (Oath): 1451 - 8433 (4942)
Weapon 2 (Grief): 7865 - 10248 (9056)
Total: 13998

perfect rolls
Weapon 1 (Oath): 1700 - 9710 (5705)
Weapon 2 (Grief): 8447 - 10829 (9638)
Total: 15343


As you can see, it's pretty close between the Oath+Fort setup vs Oath+Grief setup when you have perfect damage rolls on your weapons, but even then, Grief wins out, and in the other circumstances it's not particularly close. Furthermore, the Grief + Oath setup lets you use another armor, and the bonuses of that armor obviously haven't been factored in here.

In short, if you're making a runeword specifically for your Trav runner, make a Grief. Well, probably what you want to do is to do these calculations yourself for your particular situation, as everyone's equipment/charms/etc are different. But in general, I think just make a Grief

[Xelnaga]

4. You can' have more respecs if you wish - all you have to do is collect 4 unique "charms" from 4 (5 actually) act bosses: Andariel/Duriel, Meph, Diablo and Baal (each drops a different one - except Andy and Duriel who drop the same if I am not mistaken)

I did get a Charged from Duriel when I killed him while questing... Wich is Meph's drop. But maybe he can drop both, I dno...

Btw, nice guide fabian