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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member TheOgreMan's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    What 'crap' are you referring to; the messages which obviously show that these individuals hijacked the peer review process to one degree or another?
    Which individuals are you referring to? So far there is no evidence that points to anyone in climatology "hijacking" the peer review process.




  2. #12
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    I was, but for some reason I had forgotten and believed it was Vanzetti. Of course, that kind of works as well...
    At first I thought he was the guy who stole the Mona Lisa.



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  3. #13
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOgreMan View Post
    Which individuals are you referring to? So far there is no evidence that points to anyone in climatology "hijacking" the peer review process.
    You should re-read some of the discussion of these memos in a little more detail, then; it's precisely the charge being leveled (and to date there's been nothing but confirmation of their veracity). And I use the term 'charge' mindful of the fact that there are demands for criminal investigations being made.




  4. #14

    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sokar Rostau View Post
    I found this to be an interesting read. Sadly, many people will still be quoting this crap as fact years from now.
    When I read those emails initially, I figured it either had to be a hoax or the GW crowd had some serious 'splainin to do. Thanks for the link, I found it quite valuable.

    Thinking back on some of the work emails I've sent recently, I can see how someone picking and choosing snippets to post online could make me appear to be just about anything they wanted to portray. And if you really look at the pieces quoted, it's obvious that without context, the only meaning they have is the meaning the reviewer brings with them to the reading.

    The only one I see as truly interesting is the one where he requests the deletion of certain emails. Not a smoking gun in and of itself, but questionable enough that I'd like to know specifically what was discussed in those emails.



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  5. #15
    IncGamers Member KillerAim's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    The information obtained is more than just E-Mails, it was also programming source code. The memo fields explaining the purpose of the next or previous sub-routine are pretty damning. It could still be a hoax but, if it is, it's a very sophisticated one.

    In addition, evidence is coming out that the information may not have been hacked; instead, it was put on a public access server. Whether it was done by accident or by design is not yet clear. All of the E-Mails, documentation, etc. were supposedly found in one place which has led many to believe that this information was compiled as a result of a Freedom of Information request.

    It's too soon for me to decide on its authenticity.




  6. #16

    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerAim View Post
    The information obtained is more than just E-Mails, it was also programming source code. The memo fields explaining the purpose of the next or previous sub-routine are pretty damning.
    Can you link me to a good analysis of those code comments? I'd like to look them over.
    It could still be a hoax but, if it is, it's a very sophisticated one.
    From what I've seen, no one involved is crying hoax, so they are likely legit.



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  7. #17
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    I agree on that, so a discussion would be pointless.

    BTW, I finally found out who that guy in your avatar is. I doubt that I'm the first, but who was quicker than me?
    I was long ago.



  8. #18
    IncGamers Member KillerAim's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    SaroDarksbane:
    Can you link me to a good analysis of those code comments? I'd like to look them over
    I can't find the original article I read, but here's one that covers pretty much the same issue.




  9. #19

    Re: Global WarmingGate

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerAim View Post
    SaroDarksbane:

    I can't find the original article I read, but here's one that covers pretty much the same issue.
    Ah, darn. I had seen that one and was hoping there was more out there because that one is explained, apparently, by the fact that tree rings cannot be used as an accurate record of temperature past 1960 (which is why the code specifies that other temperatures should be used past that point).

    I would assume that temperature readings for years past are sporadic and come from many different sources, each with different measurements and/or methodologies, and they are trying to fit these disparate series of data into a single chart or model, which would, of course, have quite a few limitations such as the one this comment attempts to explain.

    Doesn't seem to be anything malicious about it yet. Perhaps there are more examples out there yet to surface . . .

    EDIT:

    Really, the only thing that's crystal clear to me from this "leak" thus far, is that the team in question was very antagonistic towards people who wanted their data. It may be understandable, given how much flak they probably got from the other side of the debate, but it's unfortunate all the same.



    Last edited by SaroDarksbane; 25-11-2009 at 03:52.
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  10. #20
    IncGamers Member KillerAim's Avatar
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    Re: Global WarmingGate

    SaroDarksbane:
    Ah, darn. I had seen that one and was hoping there was more out there because that one is explained, apparently, by the fact that tree rings cannot be used as an accurate record of temperature past 1960 (which is why the code specifies that other temperatures should be used past that point).
    But that's the fact that the initial article emphasized. Until around the 1960's and later, the collection of temperature from recording devices was haphazard at best. Recordings were initially taken just once a day, then when there were multiple readings, they were not taken at consistent times. As soon as there were more accurate readings, the correlation between the size of tree rings and temperature became suspect. Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that any temperature estimate that is based on the size of tree rings should be rejected? And isn't almost the entire historical evidence for global warming based exactly on such data?




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