Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Page 1 of 15 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 146
  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Kalara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    147

    Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    I was reading over the Live Chat transcripts last week (Link) and something Medievaldragon commented on brought up a red flag for me that I am not sure has been addressed or considered. It has to do with the new Magic Find system.

    As we know Blizzard is taking efforts to keep from having one class the "MF class" that we saw in D2 with the sorceress by making all characters gear equally important in developing their killing power instead of the damage relying primarily on skills for some classes leaving many open gear slots to fill with MF equipment. Blizzard has also changed the drop system to get rid of that annoying free for all click-fest by making loot drop individually for each character based upon their own MF.

    Combine these two and you get the unfortunate situation where the best way to get items is to gimp your character by loading up on MF equipment and then joining up with a group to let them do the real killing. That is fine when playing with a group of friends and dividing loot among the several characters but in public games it makes a huge incentive for free-loading. We had the annoying low level xp leechers in D2 but the new system would mean that these wretches would actually be getting more of a chance for great loot then those doing the actual work. This really rubs me the wrong way and I don't think I am alone in this.

    The only partial solution I can think of is to allow people to view other characters equipment so that we can at least see if some jerk is leeching along and getting better drops then the rest of us doing the work so he can be booted from the group. However, this solution has a huge downside in taking the element of surprise that makes PVP exciting. I really hope Blizzard or some of you have a better solution to this problem. What do you all think?



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    108

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    I would be extremely surprised if there isn't a way to view another character's equipment in D3. Not has this been a feature forever in WoW, but I seem to recall that you could even do this in D2 (with illegal mods!). I suspect there will be options for booting/banning people from your games, whether by voting or otherwise.

    They've also said that Magic-Find probably won't be a gear-based thing, which I think is great. I've been trying to play some D2 for the last few weeks, and it just irritates the hell out of me how much incentive there is to ignore great upgrades just because they lack MF.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member Moonfrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,256

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    It's probably too early to worry about that. We do not yet know in what form MF will return, though Jay Wilson's statements in the IGN interview (relevant parts quoted below) make it quite clear that the devs do not want the D2 scenario all over again, so seeing characters wearing full MF as you suggest, like in D2, seems highly unlikely:

    There's a couple of answers there. The first one would be…how do we handle loot, you're really probably interested in how we handle Magic Find. For Magic Find, we like the idea of Magic Find, it's cool, something happens and all of a sudden I have a better chance of getting gear. But what we don't like is that it changes how you play to such a degree. I dump really good items because they're not Magic Find items. I play certain classes because they're the best classes for Magic Find. So we want to keep Magic Find, but we want to pull that out of the balance.

    The easiest way might be to not make it item-based, or if we make it item-based, to make it something you could put on anybody. Maybe there's some way to grant your items Magic Find on top of something, but then that maybe has some kind of inherent cost to it. So we haven't decided yet, that's why we're kind of talking in riddles, but the key is, we don't want players to play that way. We don't want players' items to be dictated by Magic Find. That's not fun.
    Having said that, this part of your post doesn't make sense to me:

    Blizzard has also changed the drop system to get rid of that annoying free for all click-fest by making loot drop individually for each character based upon their own MF.
    Combine these two and you get the unfortunate situation where the best way to get items is to gimp your character by loading up on MF equipment and then joining up with a group to let them do the real killing.
    I have two problems with this. Firstly, the idea that your MF is applied to "your" enemies, rather than the MF of the player delivering the killing blow, seems like an assumption because I haven't read anything of the sort anywhere. Admittedly, I might've missed this bit of info, so if anyone could confirm it that would be great.

    Secondly, assuming the MF thing above is true, how would you apply your MF to your drops if you're not doing any killing? You'd have to constantly tag the mobs (i.e. make them yours) and wait for the others to do the killing, which I doubt most players would put up with for very long. Even if a certain percantage of all mobs are "yours" simply because you're in a group (the perhaps more likely case), people would quickly notice when someone isn't pulling their weight.

    The probably most important thing is that the developers don't want MF to have a big impact on people's playstyle, so based on that alone I doubt we'll have to worry about all this. Things that appear easy to exploit are usually easy to fix as well.


    Last edited by Moonfrost; 28-09-2009 at 20:02.

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member raveharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Forum full of whiners
    Posts
    3,164

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalara View Post
    Combine these two and you get the unfortunate situation where the best way to get items is to gimp your character by loading up on MF equipment and then joining up with a group to let them do the real killing. That is fine when playing with a group of friends and dividing loot among the several characters but in public games it makes a huge incentive for free-loading. We had the annoying low level xp leechers in D2 but the new system would mean that these wretches would actually be getting more of a chance for great loot then those doing the actual work. This really rubs me the wrong way and I don't think I am alone in this.
    It's too early to actually deduce stuff like these, we don't even know how the new looting system works.

    But do you think Blizzard did not consider about the abuse that might come with this new looting system?

    But let's see, you said "low lvl xp leechers", so that primarily applies to D2 only. We won't see that in D3.

    The only partial solution I can think of is to allow people to view other characters equipment so that we can at least see if some jerk is leeching along and getting better drops then the rest of us doing the work so he can be booted from the group. However, this solution has a huge downside in taking the element of surprise that makes PVP exciting. I really hope Blizzard or some of you have a better solution to this problem. What do you all think?
    I fail to see how is this a solution, or are you saying that we should be able to view other players' inventory?

    Actually the main point is you get your own loot, and mind your own business.

    I don't understand why you even have to care about what others are getting. The game is about being random, if that player gets a better item or something you desire, too bad.

    But how the system would determine if one should get a drop, that should be our main concern.

    Also, what about drops from chests? I'm pretty sure non-kill drops are 100% random.


    Last edited by raveharu; 28-09-2009 at 21:58.

  5. #5
    IncGamers Member Knight_Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    988

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    Best way to solve any potential problems regarding MF and leeching guys is to make monsters drop the best gear for the player that hit it the most, this way players who don't participate in combat will get much less quality drops from monsters they didn't kill but were just nearby when they died.

    Example:
    -If you hit a monster by 50% of its health you get an MF bonus of 50% for the drops coming from the monster when it dies.

    -But if you didn't hit it at all you get 0% bonus MF from that monster when it dies ... thus resulting in less quality items from it.


    Someone will say a player with MF gear who participates in a fight and gets the MF bonus will have a higher MF than players with no MF .. well .. that won't be the case .. since the players with non-MF gear will still be able to dish out more damage (having better gear) and thus will damage the monsters more and get a higher or equal MF to MFing players who participate in combat like them ..

    Example:
    -Player-1: Has no MF gear, hit monster (A) for 80% of its HP and gets an MF bonus of +80% on the drops from it.
    -Player-2:Has MF gear that gives him +50% MF .. and deals damage to the monster equal to 20% of its HP thus getting a total 70% MF bonus on the drops from it.

    Thus it is fair and everyone is happy ^_^


    Last edited by Knight_Wolf; 28-09-2009 at 22:13.

  6. #6
    IncGamers Member ZharTheMad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    191

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    I'm quite confident that Blizz will have a better, well-thought out system for MFing. I personally, hated MF from D2. It kinda defeated the purpose of having good gear, 'coz you're always forced to wear MF gear, to guess what... find good gear.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member Runestar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    275

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    I am not sure if MF% should be tied directly to something as arbitrary as damage dealt, since it is not necessarily an accurate indicator of how much a particular player is contributing to combat (even for a DPS based game like diablo).



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Knight_Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    988

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    I think Diablo being a DPS based game with all classes being DPS focused is reason enough to make damage dealt a factor of determining who gets better drops (i.e MF bonus) and who doesn't get it.

    Otherwise ... How can someone be doing lots of damage and not be contributing to the party effort in monster killing.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    UT
    Posts
    7

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalara View Post
    I was reading over the Live Chat transcripts last week (Link) and something Medievaldragon commented on brought up a red flag for me that I am not sure has been addressed or considered. It has to do with the new Magic Find system.

    As we know Blizzard is taking efforts to keep from having one class the "MF class" that we saw in D2 with the sorceress by making all characters gear equally important in developing their killing power instead of the damage relying primarily on skills for some classes leaving many open gear slots to fill with MF equipment. Blizzard has also changed the drop system to get rid of that annoying free for all click-fest by making loot drop individually for each character based upon their own MF.

    Combine these two and you get the unfortunate situation where the best way to get items is to gimp your character by loading up on MF equipment and then joining up with a group to let them do the real killing. That is fine when playing with a group of friends and dividing loot among the several characters but in public games it makes a huge incentive for free-loading. We had the annoying low level xp leechers in D2 but the new system would mean that these wretches would actually be getting more of a chance for great loot then those doing the actual work. This really rubs me the wrong way and I don't think I am alone in this.

    The only partial solution I can think of is to allow people to view other characters equipment so that we can at least see if some jerk is leeching along and getting better drops then the rest of us doing the work so he can be booted from the group. However, this solution has a huge downside in taking the element of surprise that makes PVP exciting. I really hope Blizzard or some of you have a better solution to this problem. What do you all think?
    MF is going to be cumulative. In other words, if you gimp your character for MF the other party members will still get the benefit.



  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Kalara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    147

    Re: Potential MF Abuse With the New D3 System

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMiddleRoad View Post
    MF is going to be cumulative. In other words, if you gimp your character for MF the other party members will still get the benefit.
    This is the second time I have seen this statement thrown out. Do you have a link or know where the info originated? I have followed D3 info quite closely and that statement doesn't ring a bell from anything I've seen from any official source.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •