Necro summoner weapon question

[Rawness]

This is a common missconception. The aura is significant but it is not so significant that it is the end all be all summoner weapon. CE is going to clear faster with the HotO and AoKL and as it is the primary damage source for the typical minion master the aura from Beast make less difference than one might assume. In high player count games Best is on better footing than low player count games.

Depends on the gear.

With an arach, trang gloves + sprit monarch you've got a 75 FCR, even with beast, I guess you could have a 125 fcr, but let's not go into that. You'd get 10% faster CE, 1 more frame.... i'd take beast everyday.

[mephiztophelez]

Killing speed vs. magic find or fcr. In 8 player games the killing speed is noticeably faster with beast, in 1 player games, not so much.

your main killing skill is still Corpse Explosion. your main first-corpse-provider is your merc.

i don't see Beast as being a good weapon for a summon nec. i really don't.

I don't bother with magic find, I prefer to find as many white/grey items as I can, and I usually run everything in 8 player games.

i'm not overly fussed by magic find either. it's goldfind my 'necs kitted out for.

[AnubisXy]

i don't see Beast as being a good weapon for a summon nec. i really don't.

You should try it out and see for yourself, it provides one of the best auras in the game and the killing speed increase is very noticeable. It also affects the speed at which your mages cast. CE isn't anywhere near as effective in 8 player games as it is in 1 player games, but it does still do massive damage. I'm losing +3 to skills by holding this weapon, which amounts to basically CE (still slvl 25 after equipment) because everything else is summoned with AOKL before I start running. slvl 28 CE or slvl 25 ce with fanat, I'll take beast please.

To each their own I suppose, but I would never give up Beast as my main weapon for running 8 player games.

[curby]

Well, remember that you have two weapons and your choiceS (not single) are dependent on the rest of your gear as well as your play style and goals.

Personally I run with Beast and Hoto. Hoto is used for teleporting, summoning, and exiting games. Hoto helps in teleporting for three reasons. First, it gets me from a 12-frame cast to a 10-frame, which is certainly noticeable. Second, its resists let me Shael the paired Homunculus for fast blocking, which is key to getting out of trouble quickly. Lastly, it adds 3 to the teleport skill so it drains mana more slowly. Hoto is useful for summoning because of the obvious +3 all skills. And lastly, apparently Iron Golems enter the game at the character's current IG skill level, so I always exit with Hoto active instead of Beast.

Beast is useful for fighting. I don't mind the loss of skills for curses (+4 from gloves and Homunculus anyway) or resists (Beast's Homunculus is Umed) and the increased attack speeds, movement speeds, and damage certainly helps out.

If I could use three weaponsets, I'd put CtA on the third, but I feel that the other two fit my desires more than extra life. With 75-90% resists, 26% PDR, 75% blocking, 400-ish physical absorbed by Bone Armor, 16 melee tanks and 1500 life, it's pretty safe. If I only had mid-range equipment I might be tempted by CtA, but I'd use Hoto as my primary for both summoning and fighting. Just like I use Maras instead of a +3 summoning ammy, I like well-roundedness. And that's why I never play with AoKL.

[tetracycloide]

Depends on the gear.

With an arach, trang gloves + sprit monarch you've got a 75 FCR, even with beast, I guess you could have a 125 fcr, but let's not go into that. You'd get 10% faster CE, 1 more frame.... i'd take beast everyday.

I was refering to the additional skill points that increase the radius, not the fast cast. The radius on CE can never be too large. Furthermore spirit monarch is a silly choice for a summoner.

For my own play I use HotO with CtA on switch because I run ubers and the CtA makes a huge amount of difference keeping my merc alive. I'd rather keep the curses leveled all the way up with a HotO even if it's just a few levels because terror and dim vision really help when dealing with uber minions. If I were playing solo for area clears I'd run the same setup because the extended mana pool and larger CE raduis help more than the beast aura that only helps with the first 2-3 kills. If I were playing in a group or in a game with several other players then I'd most certainly be using beast, although if the group already had fanatacism I'd stick to HotO and CtA.

[Rawness]

I was refering to the additional skill points that increase the radius, not the fast cast. The radius on CE can never be too large. Furthermore spirit monarch is a silly choice for a summoner.

For my own play I use HotO with CtA on switch because I run ubers and the CtA makes a huge amount of difference keeping my merc alive. I'd rather keep the curses leveled all the way up with a HotO even if it's just a few levels because terror and dim vision really help when dealing with uber minions. If I were playing solo for area clears I'd run the same setup because the extended mana pool and larger CE raduis help more than the beast aura that only helps with the first 2-3 kills. If I were playing in a group or in a game with several other players then I'd most certainly be using beast, although if the group already had fanatacism I'd stick to HotO and CtA.

Still don't see the point. you lose about 3+ into ce, which translates into 1 radius aprox.... from 15 radius into 14 radius.
I assume that your total CE is: 35, and that you lose 3, when you take away the hoto. I guess it's up to personal preferance, but that 1 extra radius doesn't seem to be worth switching for, it seems as a waste of time, like a girl checking if her mascara is on every twenty minutes...

Might as well go for a spirit monarch, and probably the best thing for this set up, the faster the CE travels, the faster it kills. I could understand that you argue for hoto when making that point, but now it all seems... personal... not necessary.

[curby]

I agree with tetra, but once again it shows how it really depends on the situation (and personal goals/preferences). I use Insight IGs to solve the mana problem, and my life is sufficient when factoring in the other defensive features of my gear and build. If you were running with a group, you might have a pally with much higher Fanat, but you might have a barb with a much higher BO.

If I had to just choose one weap for a summoner, then all else being equal I'd use HOTO. It does a lot in many different areas.

And yeah, just say no to Spirit shields on a summoner. =)

Homunc: more skills, more resists, more blocking
Spirit: FCR, FHR

If you already have too much str invested and can actually equip a monarch, and you use CtA, then it's a good choice for the weaponswitch for the +2 BO. But FHR and FCR are both found in sufficient numbers elsewhere, whereas neither the common armor, helm, rings, boots or belt provide good resists so upwards of +62% is certainly appreciated. And I'll never build a summoner with less than 75% blocking, so that's another strike against Spirit.

[tetracycloide]

I could understand that you argue for hoto when making that point, but now it all seems... personal... not necessary.

All the arguments here between the three minion master weapons are personal. Given the number of situations in the game and the capabilities of a minion master there is no 'wrong' answer because no one weapon is required to do anything. Each is suited to a different scenario and therefor all answers are right for different reasons.

[Jedouard]

You should try it out and see for yourself, it provides one of the best auras in the game and the killing speed increase is very noticeable. It also affects the speed at which your mages cast.

This is actually where the common misconception mentioned above lies. Skeletons, no matter what aura is on them, cannot attack more often than every 15 frames. I am pretty sure this is the same for the skeleton mages' cast rate.

That said, I still use fanaticism because its benefits outweigh all other possible weapons, particularly as you and your gear become high level and the aura bonus increase geometrically.

Beast (Fanaticism) does give a killing speed benefit though in at least five ways:

1) Revives still receive the attack speed benefit.
2) Skeletons and Revives receive the attack rating benefit, which means they will hit more often.
3) Skeletons and Revives receive damage bonuses.
4) If your minions are slowed or chilled, then the attack speed/cast rate benefit will kick in (but not such that it will ever be 15 frames for skeletons and skeleton mages).
5) Beast gives open wounds to your necromancer, which is great for stopping ubers' regeneration. Open wounds turns their positive regeneration into a negative regeneration of about -100 per second for 8 seconds. Given their usual regeneration, this amounts to thousands of HP. (Tip: Turn into a werebear to get the HP and defence bonus, the former being more important than the latter at keeping you safe. The fanaticism will make it so that you have an okay chance at hitting the uber. Swing away and keep an extra careful eye on your health.)

[Rawness]

This is pretty common misconception. Skeletons, no matter what aura is on them, cannot attack more often than every 15 frames. I am pretty sure this is the same for skeleton mages.

That said, I still use fanaticism because its benefits outweigh all other possible weapons, particularly as you and your gear become high level and the aura bonus increase geometrically.

Beast (Fanaticism) does give a killing speed benefit though in at least five ways:

1) Revives still receive the attack speed benefit.
2) Skeletons and Revives receive the attack rating benefit, which means they will hit more often.
3) Skeletons and Revives receive damage bonuses.
4) If your minions are slowed, then the attack speed benefit will kick in (but not any more faster 15 frames for skeletons and skeleton mages).
5) Beast gives open wounds to your necromancer, which is great against ubers. (Turn into a werebear to get the HP and defence bonus, the former being more important than the latter at keeping you safe. The fanaticism will make it so that you have an okay chance at hitting the uber. Swing away and keep an extra careful eye on your health.)

Thanks for more knowledge...