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  1. #1
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    UT Kicker Q's

    How much IAS do I need?

    0 BoS ( Since I'll have fade )

    Table says 46ias for 7frames first kick, then 5ias for second kick to reach 3 frames, do they add up, i.e. I need 51% ias?

    Current Gear, not necessarily what I'll be using for Ubers:

    Shako (needed +2 skills to reach 30 DTalon, help with traps on switch)
    CoH
    Mara
    Manald
    Raven
    Nossy Coil
    Upped Gores
    Trangs Gloves ( boost venom damage, obv can be changed out )
    LW Phase: 67% Crushing Blow/Phoenix Monarch
    Switch: Hoto/Spirit, prebuff/traps.

    Total CB: 82%

    Res in Hell with Phoenix: 39/69/39/39 ( -14 for torch 25/45/25/25 )
    Res in Hell with Phoenix + Fade: 85/75/80/75 ( -14 for torch not included but will still leave me too low even with Fade :( )
    Life: 1291 ( without BO )
    Mana: 381
    Attack Rating: 7765 ( Ouch )

    Gear Changes?

    Is my Mana going to be enough, especially if I change out my Manald?

    Will I need to stack up some +AR Charms?

    I have like 7 or 8 Trap Charms on me at the moment, so I have plenty of room to switch them out for others. ( Maybe some MA Charms if I need to lose some of the +skill gear. )

    Anything else I should know? Oh and do I -need- Mindblast? I'll be there with at least one other person and he should have Howl.




  2. #2
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    First, the IAS does not stack for requirements. That said, it never broke a char to go 8/4/4/4. IAS honestly doesn't matter that much, but the following gear gets decent speed as is.

    Shako out for Guillaume's. It's just about unbeatable for this sin, and the skill isn't needed for talon.

    Nos isn't needed. TGod's has always worked for me due to str, the res, etc.

    Drac's will serve a better glove. You'll see why.

    LWPB is bad enough, phoenix makes it even worse. Stormlash is better than LW, and speaking of storm, storm shield is vastly better than a phoenix.

    What charms? + ar charms help alot, and demon limb buff works wonders as a cheap alternative.

    Mara's is fine regardless of rings. As long as you can leech yourself some mana, it shouldn't be too bad on choice.

    MA charms are a big no. PS may use them, but not any talon. Hybridizing with traps may strain some one point wonders, what skills?

    If you're just doing it with a barb, then howl works. If you take her anywhere else, MB will be needed, but it's a one pointer anyway. At the very least, you already need cos for some start up hits.

    Res is also very low. Any charms boosting or what level fade are you using? (unless basing off LW)



  3. #3
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post
    First, the IAS does not stack for requirements. That said, it never broke a char to go 8/4/4/4. IAS honestly doesn't matter that much, but the following gear gets decent speed as is.

    Shako out for Guillaume's. It's just about unbeatable for this sin, and the skill isn't needed for talon.

    Nos isn't needed. TGod's has always worked for me due to str, the res, etc.

    Drac's will serve a better glove. You'll see why.

    LWPB is bad enough, phoenix makes it even worse. Stormlash is better than LW, and speaking of storm, storm shield is vastly better than a phoenix.

    What charms? + ar charms help alot, and demon limb buff works wonders as a cheap alternative.

    Mara's is fine regardless of rings. As long as you can leech yourself some mana, it shouldn't be too bad on choice.

    MA charms are a big no. PS may use them, but not any talon. Hybridizing with traps may strain some one point wonders, what skills?

    If you're just doing it with a barb, then howl works. If you take her anywhere else, MB will be needed, but it's a one pointer anyway. At the very least, you already need cos for some start up hits.

    Res is also very low. Any charms boosting or what level fade are you using? (unless basing off LW)
    Shako brings me to a breakpoint for an extra kick. Guillaumes is overkill on crushing blow I think. ( Considering Kira for the much needed res. )

    Nos I don't mind switching out.

    Why Dracs? I don't need lifetap since it's on LW, maybe the open wounds?

    What's wrong with LWPB? Crushing blow, fade, lifetap, fast base speed. Stormshield is a fine possibility, I'll probably get myself one.

    Basically no charms atm, just trap GC's for PvM play. Can replace them with AR charms. Also have a demonlimb for buffing on top of being able to replace.

    Maras I'll keep, think I'll need the res lol. Rings I'll keep the same I expect.

    I'm considering 2 MA skillers to replace the skills from Shako, so I don't lose a kick on DTalon.

    MB isn't a problem to get, I need a few more levels before I do UT with her anyway.

    Charms I can replace for res, was considering a Kiras instead of Shako. Fade is lvl 11, but the ctc fade from LW will overwrite it anyway.




  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Shako brings me to a breakpoint for an extra kick. Guillaumes is overkill on crushing blow I think. ( Considering Kira for the much needed res. )
    Shako isn't needed. The Guillaume's is far, far better.

    Why Dracs? I don't need lifetap since it's on LW, maybe the open wounds?
    OW is just gravy. You need the tap. Like I said, you'll see why.

    What's wrong with LWPB? Crushing blow, fade, lifetap, fast base speed. Stormshield is a fine possibility, I'll probably get myself one.
    LW sucks.

    Compared to Stormlash:

    Both have CB
    Both gears have ctc tap.
    Both use fade
    Both have a fast kick.
    Only Stormlash has ctc static field.

    Same stuff you need, but lash beats it. Not to mention, it's a fraction of the cost, but better. I'd take it any day.

    The 7K is with demon or??? The trap charms need to be replaced with ar / res. Hybrid is cool, but not good idea for ubers.

    I'm considering 2 MA skillers to replace the skills from Shako, so I don't lose a kick on DTalon.
    Do not use a MA skiller. It's better to just lose the kick than pump for more. The ar and res out does 2 skills.

    Charms I can replace for res, was considering a Kiras instead of Shako. Fade is lvl 11, but the ctc fade from LW will overwrite it anyway.
    Kira's isn't good enough for this.



  5. #5
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Quote Originally Posted by Akimbo View Post
    How much IAS do I need?

    0 BoS ( Since I'll have fade )

    Table says 46ias for 7frames first kick, then 5ias for second kick to reach 3 frames, do they add up, i.e. I need 51% ias?

    Current Gear, not necessarily what I'll be using for Ubers:

    Shako (needed +2 skills to reach 30 DTalon, help with traps on switch)
    CoH
    Mara
    Manald
    Raven
    Nossy Coil
    Upped Gores
    Trangs Gloves ( boost venom damage, obv can be changed out )
    LW Phase: 67% Crushing Blow/Phoenix Monarch
    Switch: Hoto/Spirit, prebuff/traps.

    Total CB: 82%

    Res in Hell with Phoenix: 39/69/39/39 ( -14 for torch 25/45/25/25 )
    Res in Hell with Phoenix + Fade: 85/75/80/75 ( -14 for torch not included but will still leave me too low even with Fade :( )
    Life: 1291 ( without BO )
    Mana: 381
    Attack Rating: 7765 ( Ouch )

    Gear Changes?

    Is my Mana going to be enough, especially if I change out my Manald?

    Will I need to stack up some +AR Charms?

    I have like 7 or 8 Trap Charms on me at the moment, so I have plenty of room to switch them out for others. ( Maybe some MA Charms if I need to lose some of the +skill gear. )

    Anything else I should know? Oh and do I -need- Mindblast? I'll be there with at least one other person and he should have Howl.
    Last Wish is a good idea. It adds to kick damage thanks to Might and thanks to Last Wish, I can skip Guillaumes if I want. 60% CB is more than enough. I can go for anything else helm related like Kiras, Giant Skull, COA. Not Shako however. Dont worry about ppl saying Gulli or nothing, Gulli is overrated. You can even skip Gores. Make sure you have Dracs for decent OW.

    Not same as Stormlash, which has 33% CB and you'd have to use Gulli and Gores or socekt it with Ber, which id rather not. Instead opt for a Lo or Um socket if you go Stormlash. Static is pointless with 75 light resist, and 110 immune from Meph. And PB >>> Lash for speed. Once again, Lash is overrated.

    What else ... any armor will do ... COH, Forti, Duress, Lionheart, Tyrael Um.

    Forget the Phoenix dude .... useless mods apart 400ed which has to be sacrificed .... Stormshield without a shadow of doubt.

    Ditch Nossy, get Verdungo, Tgods or rare res - life - str - belt

    MA GC's are not necessary, maybe 2 at most. A 5 kick attack will do trust me. Mine was level 27 DTalon just fine. Make sure you are packing 300 resist Fire/Cold/Lightning all versus Meph and you will be fine. Use Fade and stack up on res / life charms like crazy. Oh and prebuff with Demon Limb, make sure you have at least 15K AR. Mine had 22K, but anyway :P

    Baal will be a pain in the arse if he spams Mana Rifts and wraiths surround you. Manald Heal might not be enough. Since assassins have crappy defense, wraiths will hit you very often (even 75% block doesnt come into play as often as you would think), with the result you will stop kicking very often because of massive mana loss. Try COS and Mind Blast, and try lure Baal into a corner with your back against the wall and him in front of you.

    Try solo it first then do it with friends later :P :P

    Kicksins might disappoint you though, Frenzy Barbs and Fury Druids are way faster. Their kick animation seems bugged sometimes.



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Last Wish is a good idea. It adds to kick damage thanks to Might and thanks to Last Wish, I can skip Guillaumes if I want. 60% CB is more than enough. I can go for anything else helm related like Kiras, Giant Skull, COA. Not Shako however. Dont worry about ppl saying Gulli or nothing, Gulli is overrated. You can even skip Gores. Make sure you have Dracs for decent OW.
    It adds kick dmg, which is terrible for a kicker. Do not base a kicker of phys dmg; it will suck. Sorry to say, but LW isn't good for this build.

    The helm needs a Guillaume for the massive CB. It's under rated since everyone's wanting LW and some other helm. LW is the only over rated item listed.

    At least you said using dracs >>

    Not same as Stormlash, which has 33% CB and you'd have to use Gulli and Gores or socekt it with Ber, which id rather not. Instead opt for a Lo or Um socket if you go Stormlash. Static is pointless with 75 light resist, and 110 immune from Meph. And PB >>> Lash for speed. Once again, Lash is overrated.
    I wouldn't recommend socketing a Stormlash with a ber.

    Lo does absolutely nothing for a kicker. Static hurts every non immune. Even then, it quickly deals with immunes. LW would get me at roughly the exact same speed, so no reason not to use a lash.

    Forget the Phoenix dude .... useless mods apart 400ed which has to be sacrificed .... Stormshield without a shadow of doubt.
    Not even the 400ED is good. The only thing nice is the max res.

    Kicksins might disappoint you though, Frenzy Barbs and Fury Druids are way faster. Their kick animation seems bugged sometimes.
    I wouldn't take anything but a sin into UT unless leveling.



  7. #7
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Quote Originally Posted by ancalagon View Post
    Last Wish is a good idea. It adds to kick damage thanks to Might and thanks to Last Wish, I can skip Guillaumes if I want. 60% CB is more than enough. I can go for anything else helm related like Kiras, Giant Skull, COA. Not Shako however. Dont worry about ppl saying Gulli or nothing, Gulli is overrated. You can even skip Gores. Make sure you have Dracs for decent OW.

    Not same as Stormlash, which has 33% CB and you'd have to use Gulli and Gores or socekt it with Ber, which id rather not. Instead opt for a Lo or Um socket if you go Stormlash. Static is pointless with 75 light resist, and 110 immune from Meph. And PB >>> Lash for speed. Once again, Lash is overrated.

    What else ... any armor will do ... COH, Forti, Duress, Lionheart, Tyrael Um.

    Forget the Phoenix dude .... useless mods apart 400ed which has to be sacrificed .... Stormshield without a shadow of doubt.

    Ditch Nossy, get Verdungo, Tgods or rare res - life - str - belt

    MA GC's are not necessary, maybe 2 at most. A 5 kick attack will do trust me. Mine was level 27 DTalon just fine. Make sure you are packing 300 resist Fire/Cold/Lightning all versus Meph and you will be fine. Use Fade and stack up on res / life charms like crazy. Oh and prebuff with Demon Limb, make sure you have at least 15K AR. Mine had 22K, but anyway :P

    Baal will be a pain in the arse if he spams Mana Rifts and wraiths surround you. Manald Heal might not be enough. Since assassins have crappy defense, wraiths will hit you very often (even 75% block doesnt come into play as often as you would think), with the result you will stop kicking very often because of massive mana loss. Try COS and Mind Blast, and try lure Baal into a corner with your back against the wall and him in front of you.

    Try solo it first then do it with friends later :P :P

    Kicksins might disappoint you though, Frenzy Barbs and Fury Druids are way faster. Their kick animation seems bugged sometimes.
    Thanks for the reply, I fully intend on using LW for this, the high natural speed on the weapon, twice the crushing blow stormlash has, fade, lifetap, "natural" damage from might to help finish enemies off once crushing loses it's effect...

    Shako is only on my character for PvE, it's definitely going to be replaced for Ubering. I was thinking Kira or Giant Skull, CoA if I can bring myself to spend that much lol.

    Dracs will be on for increased Lifetap chance and open wounds as well as some str for gear.

    Phoenix is only on for PvE, as I said I'll almost certainly be putting a Storm on for Ubers.

    Tgods or Dungo will be going on, most likely Tgods for the Str.

    2x MA grand charms is for if I -really- feel I want that last kick, I'll try without first.

    I have Demon Limb ready for pre-buff and I'm going to stack some ar/life charms.

    Not sure how I'm going to stack enough Res, which is making me think Kiras ( at least vs Meph ) is a must.

    I agree mana may be the problem I can't do much about, If I try to solo I'll use mb, if I'm with a team, it'll be a frenzy barb with Howl.

    I'm aware other builds would probably be faster, but I just felt like using my Sin




  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    phoenix isn't even a pve shield. it overrides your DS, making it useless.

    lash is still far superior



  9. #9
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post

    I wouldn't recommend socketing a Stormlash with a ber.
    I cant think of anything else to socket it with though, unless maybe an Um. But even Dracs is enough OW IMO. And dont say Eld rune, heard a lot of ppl saying Eld rune with Stormlash, because -def gives minute returns on To Hit vs Ubers. If you use PPR's To Hit calc, even a high AR and 0 defense Ubers gives you an extra 3% at best with their high mlvl and 50% block.

    Anyway, its really a matter of preference. A lot of guides advocate Last Wish, others advocate Stormlash. I explained the flexibility LW offers me and why I chose it and if it doesnt work for you, all fair and square but I still wouldnt call it crap Especially when you consider how high a price Last Wish can fetch if it has medium to high stats (Europe ladder), must be cuz its sought after. It costs 8 ist to make, but fetches double and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post

    Lo does absolutely nothing for a kicker.
    Righto, I forgot. Not even ED vs Demons. Same as with Smite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post

    I wouldn't take anything but a sin into UT unless leveling.
    A kicksin is a fun build to Uber with. But lets be honest, cant say youre not biased :P You respond to every other Sin thread and even your avatar says you're crazy for Assassins :P Theyre good, and definitely more fun than a boring 30 second Smiter. But Frenzy barbs and Fury druids >>>>> faster. And I'm saying that when my favorite class is Sorcs.



  10. #10
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    Re: UT Kicker Q's

    Quote Originally Posted by Akimbo View Post
    Thanks for the reply, I fully intend on using LW for this, the high natural speed on the weapon, twice the crushing blow stormlash has, fade, lifetap, "natural" damage from might to help finish enemies off once crushing loses it's effect...

    Shako is only on my character for PvE, it's definitely going to be replaced for Ubering. I was thinking Kira or Giant Skull, CoA if I can bring myself to spend that much lol.

    Dracs will be on for increased Lifetap chance and open wounds as well as some str for gear.

    Phoenix is only on for PvE, as I said I'll almost certainly be putting a Storm on for Ubers.

    Tgods or Dungo will be going on, most likely Tgods for the Str.

    2x MA grand charms is for if I -really- feel I want that last kick, I'll try without first.

    I have Demon Limb ready for pre-buff and I'm going to stack some ar/life charms.

    Not sure how I'm going to stack enough Res, which is making me think Kiras ( at least vs Meph ) is a must.

    I agree mana may be the problem I can't do much about, If I try to solo I'll use mb, if I'm with a team, it'll be a frenzy barb with Howl.

    I'm aware other builds would probably be faster, but I just felt like using my Sin
    Giant Skull if you're not going for Gulli. Has same 2 free sockets as COA, and isnt even 1/10th the ridiculous price of a COA. Double Um it for 30 res all. What else, it has 10% CB which is always nice. IF youre on Europe ladder, dont pay more than 1 HR for a 2sox Giant Skull, or 2 HR for a perfect strength 2sox one. Thats max price, BTW, maybe even less.

    Check how much total res to Fire/Cold/Light you have, separately, and see where you can improve. Its mostly down to COH armor if you need 50+, and if you need 80++ then stack up charms like mad.

    BTW Uber Mephistos elemental attacks tend to hurt even with max resists! I just tested today. His Blizzard and Lightning pack a punch, and so does his Charged Bolt. Crazy damage.



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