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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member
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    Idea PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    The one big problem I have with HC is that PvP dueling is practically non-existent. Many people including myself are not willing to risk losing our hard earned character over a single duel. In turn, we don't duel, and miss out on a large aspect of the game. I hate softcore because I get no satisfaction out of the riskless PvM, yet I find myself playing it just for the PvP. I hope that in D3 they change this so that you can still play HC but have a separate arena for PvP which you don't die permanently. For those who want permanent death dueling there should be a special toggle that lets you switch between non-permanent and permanent death PVP within the arena. I feel that this would draw more people to HC and would give HC players something to look forward to at higher levels aside from grinding.

    And a sub-idea to the HC PvP idea would be the possibility of having some type of penalty for dying that would make HC dueling more intense than softcore dueling but without permanent death. Maybe you lose gold, exp, items, etc. Ideas are welcome.

    Please comment on this thread and let me know if you feel the same way about this topic.




  2. #2
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    Perhaps dueling should only bring your health down to 1, once it does, it announces who won. However you would have to be careful about roaming critters and whatnot.



  3. #3
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    Thumbs down Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    Ehh, I wouldnt want it to be left up to chance like that. I think if there were to be a penalty other than permanent death, then it should be something tangible and concrete. Something that would make dying in HC PvP sting, but not wanna make you throw yourself of the top of a building.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Asrrin's Avatar
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    in PvP, everytime you lose and die, you lose one level and you exp is reset to 0 for that level. that would sting and be a substantial loss, but not insurmountable.



  5. #5
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    I always wanted this in D2 myself, and thought it could easily be paired with arena games. Of course they never got around to enabling arena games in D2, but since there's not going to be PKing in D3, they'll have to have some sort of arena option for PvP to exist. Seems like it would be easy enough to enable hc to enter arena games without permanent death enabled.

    That said, I want there to be the option for a "real" HC duel. Even though hardly anyone would ever use it with high level characters, the option should exist to make it a permanent fight. In my dream world I'd throw in a mechanism to wager items on the outcome. (The loser item fountains upon death? He won't be needing them anymore, after all.) And while I'm wishing, how about a system to enable "best of 3/5/7" as well, so one lucky shot or lag spike wouldn't determine the whole outcome.



    --Flux
    The Diablo 1, 2, & 3 Wiki! (Under construction.)


  6. #6
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    It depends on things that we are not aware of. Specifically whether or not group PvP exists, how central to the design of the game PvP is, and how competitive Blizzard intends for the PvP to be.

    As it PvP currently exists in D2 I would say that a no death mode is a terrible idea. HC is supposed to be harder, the word "hard" is in the name of the mode for a reason. PvP should not be an exception. Watering it down would make it less fun... even with a death toggle sort of option it kills significance of dueling in HC.

    Besides, if people had an alternative it'd be much tricksier to get ears from unprepared folk ~_~


    However if Blizzard takes D3's PvP in the direction of WoW's I would agree that an alternative to dying would be almost necessary. I still don't like the death toggle though... I prefer ideas such as PvP only characters for which you either have to unlock gear, or gear is already unlocked, or both. Kind of like GW or WoW on the tourney realms. Not only does it solve the death in PvP option, but it also solves the having to PvM in order to PvP in general problem.




  7. #7
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    terrible idea.

    You carebears just don't quit. HC pvp is the most exciting part of the game. If you are afraid to lose your char then HC is not for you. Blizzard would never implement your idea and if they did I would not buy the game.



  8. #8
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    Quote Originally Posted by windforce View Post
    HC pvp is the most exciting part of the game.
    So exciting that maybe .0001% of hc players actually take part in it!

    Well, that's how it was back in the early days of D2C and D2X, at least. I'd very occasionally see someone powering a level 5 through hell to get quest rewards for their LLD plans, but high level dueling was virtually unheard of.

    I've not played regularly on the realms in several years though, so I don't know how it is now. It's entirely possible that massive duping has made top level equipment so common that regular HC is too boring boring and easy. Plus with all of the improved rushing techniques high level characters are now so fungible that dueling has become much more common? An activity for the idle (time) rich, who can afford the equipment and character loss.


    Quote Originally Posted by windforce View Post
    Blizzard would never implement your idea and if they did I would not buy the game.
    You're probably right about them not implementing the idea, since they seldom put in things that make major changes to the games that fans all want. Arena games and guild halls in D2, for instance. As for buying the game... please. You're posting in a forum about the game 2+ years before it's going to be released. You, me, and everyone else here is a guaranteed sale.



    --Flux
    The Diablo 1, 2, & 3 Wiki! (Under construction.)


  9. #9
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux View Post
    dueling has become much more common?
    Probably the opposite really.
    Greatly decreased player pool, partly because of age of game, partly from TPPK, means that the number of duels you can find are close to 0. That's for both LLD and HLD.

    Gear scanning hacks mean the only duels you will find are from people who have a very good idea of how much damage you can do, combine that with chicken and you'll never get an ear.

    Then back to the player pool problem; after you've dueled everyone who was willing to duel you, they'll decide that they'll never ear you either, and after a week or so they'll give up trying. At this point your number of opponents drops off even further and you'll be lucky if you can get a single fight in a day.

    Since public games are non-existent you can't even go hunting for the clueless and/or PKKs. You could try PKKing yourself, except the PK has been replaced by the TPPK... you'll definitely run into one, but he won't actually be hostile until he's back safely in town.




    But that doesn't matter. HC dueling is STILL the most exciting thing in the game. It's just very difficult to find.




  10. #10
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    Re: PvP HC Dueling without Permanent Death

    I've been thinking about this for quite a while, actually posted it in a comment on that PvP guest article I think? Anyway here's my thoughts:

    You know when people duel in movies somehow it always ends up with one person disabled on the ground and the other person is standing over them with their sword. There is that classic "is he going to kill him?" moment where the hero always decides to let the villain live. I think we should have something similar in HC PvP. When you hit 0 hit points your chr falls to his/her knees and puts themselves at the mercy of your opponent, who then gets to exact a penalty on you.

    The penalties could be things like steal an item (at random), loose a level(or more?), disable the chr for an amount of time or take all the persons gold. Just letting them go should also be an option that would allow people to have practice duels between friends with no losses.

    Also when you start a duel players should have a "to the death" option which would enable real hardcore dueling for actual grudge matches and people who just want to be, well, hardcore.

    How all this would work with team duels I'm not sure, maybe one of the options when you slay an enemy would be to bring one of your own team members back in? The idea of placing a specific wager on the outcome of a duel seems really cool to me. I think on hardcore that wager should be in addition to the normal penalty though, just to differentiate it from softcore.

    Overall I'm really exited about the possibilities of dueling arenas in D3 and a real hardcore dueling scene. I, like the OP, am a hardcore player at heart who has been playing softcore recently just for the dueling.



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