looking for a safe HC build

[darkfear]

I have learned more and more that res in later lvls is the best thing which is why i like the assassin, fade is easily IMO the best thing ever, second only (maybe) to the barbarian "Nat Res". I love playing an assassin because they do enough damage to keep you alive have the CB to solo the ubers amd the res to not get murdered and the kill speed to make life fun
Other then that i tend to agree with Mr. Bill, please don't use a hammerdin because they are so cookie cutter i hate them >:o
I have not had much time playing a zon, i think maybe i am a little scared of getting my *** kicked cause I really am not great with them. I am fine in SC but for HC it would be a little more interesting lol.

[Akivasha]

Hi,
I can give you my take on a Summoner Druid-I recently built one on hardcore ladder.
In general, they are pretty safe, but not very fun.
My skill distribution was:
20 dire wolves (used most of the time over grizzly...better meat shield since you can have more...grizzly better for bosses; gives huge life bonus to grizzly)
20 grizzly (used on bosses and gives damage bonus to dire wolves)
20 heart of wolverine (chose over heart of oak because i figured damage might be an issue...i think i made the right choice)
Most remaining points into cyclone armor
I used might merc first but eventually switched to holy freeze...not sure which is better...
Basically, I made it through normal and nightmare fine, even with mediocre gear...The lack of heart of the oak didn't make much difference because I stayed back from monsters...Hell was a huge problem, however, because I had no way to deal with physical immunes. I did manage to kill Andariel a few times by myself. I made it to level 78 and the summoner and then died. My summons + merc dealt plenty of damage...it's just that it was almost all physical damage.
In short, the summoner druid was safe and entertaining for a little while...but one of the least fun builds I've played overall.

[MrBill]

<snip>... In general, they are pretty safe, but not very fun... <snip>...Hell was a huge problem, however, because I had no way to deal with physical immunes...but one of the least fun builds I've played overall...<snip>

You are half-right here; a pure Summoner Druid is a challenging build to go through Hardcore Hell with as a solo player; I'd venture to say that it's almost impossible (at least, it would be very frustrating due to the physical immunes issue) unless you have a couple of key items.

The big problem is that you cannot (except for gambling, and there, the chances are very low) shop weapons that have decent built-in damage yet also throw Decrepify and Amp Damage (both of which can remove physical immunity).

If you have access to the elite stuff, you could use any of :

Atma's Scarab (amulet with proc Amp)

Lacerator (throwing axes with proc Amp, but the % Monster flee is annoying);

Witchwild String (bow with proc Amp, resists and 2 open sockets; this is probably the best one and it's what my pure Summoner uses);

Reaper's Toll (elite Scythe with proc Decrep);

There may also be a few others (some Rares can spawn with Amp, but it's always Level 1 Amp and only a 5% chance per hit, which really doesn't last long enough in Hell), and you can equip your Merc with something like a Crescent Moon polearm (proc Static and Lightening damage, which can sort of offset physical immunity). (I would imagine that an Act 2 Might Merc with a cube bugged ethereal Duress body armor or alternatively Treachery, plus Crescent Moon, would do the trick in Hell, but it requires either two Um runes or one Um and a Lem... I haven't found a single Um this entire Ladder season, to give you an idea of how likely this is to happen for you.)

As an alternative, I found that a combined Fire / Summoner Druid build, with an Act 2 Holy Freeze Merc, works extremely well in Hell. Get Waheed the best polearm you can (note that he doesn't need an Insight; the Druid Fire tree spells don't use a great deal of mana -- even a shopped Cruel Pike will do, or for a dirty trick, make Malice for him in a fast, ethereal elite weapon like a 3 socket Hyperion Spear... let 'em bleed!), plus a little life leech and you're away to the races. (If you're item-poor, just use Crafting to make a Blood Hat and a Hit Power body armor suit for your Merc. An ideal roll for the former would be close to 10% Deadly Strike and as good life leech as you can get, for the latter, try to get proc Frost Nova to slow down the Frenzytaurs a bit.)

The great thing about a Fire / Summoner Druid in Hell is that (compared to a Wind Druid), your main elemental attack -- Fissure -- is 100% effective against physical immunes in Hell. (It just wastes physical immune ghosts in the Act 5 Ice Passages... they flap their wings over it and go 'poof'. Works for me! ) For bosses, stick a synergized Volcano up their butts. It sometimes takes 2 or 3 of them but trust me, this is the hemorrhoid from Hell!

The issue for a Wind / Summoner Druid is that Tornado is pure physical damage, and while Hurricane does do some Cold, you have to get uncomfortably close to the bad guys to use it. Also from what I can tell, a lot of physical immune monsters in Hell, particularly Ghosts, seem to be partly immune to Cold, as well. But none of them are immune from Fire unless they happen to spawn with a 'special' immunity.

The only even marginally challenging thing about this build is that you do have to be a little careful in balancing the hard points that you put into the Fire tree and the Summoning tree -- I'd advise you to decide early on if you want to max out Oak Sage (safer but slower kill rate) or Heart of Wolverine (a bit more risky, then again you're always hiding behind your minions anyway, but it will make both Waheed and the Grizzly far more effective). You will also have to decide if you want to put a lot of points into Dire Wolves; here again, having 3 of them is safer than one Grizzly, but they tend to die rather quickly against powerful, hard-hitting monsters, so overall I would suggest a maxed-out Grizzly, then make up your mind about where to put the spare points.

One last thing, make sure that you get the Carrion Vine to clear corpses, or you will quickly get frustrated with Fire Immune Carver Shamans in Hell Act 1.

So if I were you I'd try it again as a Fire Summoner... I think you'll find that a much more pleasant experience in Hell.

Cheers

Mr. Bill

[HanShotFirst]

You are half-right here; a pure Summoner Druid is a challenging build to go through Hardcore Hell with as a solo player; I'd venture to say that it's almost impossible (at least, it would be very frustrating due to the physical immunes issue) unless you have a couple of key items.

Check this thread out! (Insane Wayne talks about completing the character on page 21, post 207.)

. . . and I swear I has something more on topic but somehow it's time for work already

[MrBill]

Check this thread out! (Insane Wayne talks about completing the character on page 21, post 207.)

. . . and I swear I has something more on topic but somehow it's time for work already

I read the entire thread -- very impressive. I would remind you, however, that while "Insane Wayne" is clearly a very skilled player, he was also pretty lucky. All it would have taken would have been for his Merc to pop the wrong kind of doll at a stair trap, or for him to have taken multiple Gloam shots at one unlucky time, and that would have been Deeds time. (What if, for example, the bugged damage Tomb Vipers had spawned right at the entrance to Halls of Vaught. For a character with no integer PDR, that would have been certain, unavoidable death.)

Note that this was also SP. Try it on Battle.Net and, here again, the slightest bit of lag could also get you into deep trouble. (BTW, let's see somebody try it in a public, Hardcore Battle.Net Ladder game with no password on the session. TPPK with -90% native Cold Resist, anyone?)

Anyway, if you're not a masochist, I'd still suggest a Fire / Summoner Druid.

Cheers

Mr. Bill

[relliKniaP]

thanks for all the info. by the way i play in single player. anyway, if multi is not so good idea, what about a frost ranger, claw/shield sin using fade or war cry thrower barb? i just have this ideas and i dont know even if it works on sc XD

[NagisaFurukawa]

Any build works in SC. .

Taking into account that you are new to HC, the Frost Ranger is probably not a good choice, and there is a very good chance you will struggle to pump out enough damage, even if you get lucky and find yourself a decent bow along the way. The only good news here is that Holy Freeze is an okay crowd control skill.

The claw/shield assassin running Fade (just FYI, you generally shouldn't invest too many points into Fade) is probably going to be the easiest of the three by far, assuming you are referring to something like a Phoenix Striker or the even more standard LS/DS/FB trapper. Cookie cutter? Yes, but it's not always a bad thing to get yourself started in HC with something a little bit easier. The Phoenix Striker is the tougher of the two, and it is a skill which you will either come to love or hate, but it is extremely versatile and quite playable if you are good with your crowd controlling skills, ie. Cloak of Shadows and/or Mind Blast.

For the War Cry Double Thrower, maybe check out this thread for some ideas. I think roninDOG and OldSoldier both have Guardians from that tournament, whose Guardian threads you can probably in the SPF Matriarch/Patriarch/Guardian Compilation sticky. It is a very safe build just by virtue of having access to all of the warcries, though you will again struggle to deal very much damage. The good news is you can vendor weapons with decent amounts of %ED (or the Fool's mod if you choose to go with Open Wounds as your primary source of damage) and maybe even IAS if you are patient enough.

Regardless of what you choose, good luck.

[5zigen]

I disagree about the fade on melee Assassins. The %DR offered by high levels of fade is wonderful, even if it's just 1 pt per level. Max fade + prebuff claws can get you half way to the DR cap by itself, which is really nice particularly if you don't have access to SS and Shako.

[Akivasha]

Thanks for the advice on the summoner druid MrBill...I'll probably give that a go next ladder season