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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member
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    Charity-helping them is hurting them

    I thought I'd write a thread about this to see if other people share this view.

    Let's say you donate millions to a feed a starving village in Africa. Wouldn't the people then continue having children whom they can't afford to feed, so those new children would eventually just starve to death? Wouldn't it then be your fault for helping those children get born in the first place? If you had done nothing, if you had sent zero dollars, many of those children would not have been born in the first place. Therefore, your charity money is actually multiplying the problem. Your money is causing many more children to be born who then starve to death.

    Now, one argument to this is that charity money goes to 'family planning' to educate people about having affordable numbers of children in thier families. But hasn't this failed? If it works, then why is there still a constant need? I think family planning is just wishful thinking.

    Likewise, charities that help starving people overseas have been around for many decades, yet the problem continues to grow. Does charity even work? If the village can't grow food, then it can't grow food. Your money won't make it rain for the next hundred years.

    I believe charities merely lead to increasing the population, thereby increaseing the amount of disease and poverty. By trying to help the starving people, you are only making a greater disaster in the next generation.

    When a forest is too dry, there is a forest fire which clears the land for a new forest years later when the region has enough rainfall again. Mabey 'dry' villages are supposed to die out. If you help them, you would have to keep helping them forever. The moment you stop supporting them, they will start dying again. Isn't charity just promoting the ultimate solution of having a hand out forever?

    I believe when you interfere in such ways, by trying to be a hero and rescue starving people, you are actually becoming a future child torturer and killer. The people you help use your help to have many children, who then starve to death which is a torturous way to die. To some, the parents are poor souls who deserve all the help the can get. But in my eyes, the parents are child killers who see nothing wrong with producing children knowing full well they will likely starve to death. Why do people want to help child torturers and child killers? I don't understand. Can people not see beyond the here and now? What good is helping today's generation of poor if it means causing more suffering in the next generation.

    A similar problem is with AIDS. Let's say you send over a large amount of AIDS treatments to help keep AIDS patients alive. It may sound cold, but people can't spread AIDS if they're dead. By keeping the carriers alive, there is at least some chance they can pass the virus onto others. Therefore, your charity work of keeping AIDS patients alive has increased the number of new AIDS patients. Doesn't that make you a killer in a shrewd sense? Why would you want to increase the number of AIDS patients when your goal is to reduce the impact of the epidemic?

    Why can't people understand this? Why do cleberties and such go on television and plead too the public to help these doomed viallages? Why do they also insist on movements like 'make poverty history'? Don't they know that the only way to accomplish this is by removing billions of people from the world? If people want to make a difference, they need to choose smarter battles and stop promoting fairy tales.

    There is also a problem with child soldiers and other war time attrocities. We are expected to help out these people...a people who are so evil they use children as their soldiers and establish 'rape factories' and commit genocide. To me, it sounds like the people we are supposed to help are far beyond help. If you help them, you are helping a people who produce men who use child soldiers. Wouldn't it be better to not help them? If the people are dying this means there are fewer men to create more rape factories and child soldiers.

    This one is hard to explain, but I will try. Let's say you donate billions and remove all these horrific attrocities form one region. You've done it; you've gotten rid of child soldiers being used. Ok, but you've just helped a group of people who have been producing child soldiers become successful. Those people, due to your help, have become prosperous. They can now grow and prosper...to produce even more men who will use child soldiers. What I'm saying is, the people may be genetically disadvantaged over centuries of warfare to the point where the entire region is, for lack of a better word, evil. Or, shall we say, the people are very prone to producing child exploiters in each generation. If my theory is correct, and it's just a theory, then I have to ask, why help them? It's kind of like a rape victum giving birth to a rapist's baby. The woman raises the baby, who has 50% of the same DNA as his rapist father. The womon should chuck the rapist's baby down the nearest well.

    When someone kills a child, we think "How horrible. How can someone do that?" But it's OK to do it to future children? I don't get it. It's Ok to help a woman in Africa produce children who are certain to die by the age of 4. Anyway, for all these reasons and more, I am opposed to this sort of charity. You should instead help people who you know are going to be helped.



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member AeroJonesy's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    So I read about the first paragraph. And I think you missed the point where even when we give aid, these people are not living comfortably. There is still considerable motivation to work hard and make things better for themselves and their communities.




  3. #3
    Banned Johnny's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Africa won't start doing well until the population has been reduced enough to the point where it can be supported by the food available in the area.




  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Moosashi's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    I think that in a round-about way you've hit on the problem of hand-outs in general, from African relief to Big 3 bailouts. They create a culture of dependency without doing anything to solve the underlying problems.

    Africa is not an over-populated continent. Africans are poor because throughout history their governments have failed them in every possible way governments can fail. The wealthy nations of the world did not become so because other nations showered charity upon them. They got rich by freeing their people and their economies. That is the solution for Africa as well.

    Suggestion: succinctly introduce your point with the OP. Let the subsequent posts develop the discussion.




  5. #5
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Try giving to charities that provide education and training, particularly to women.



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member SnickerSnack's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Yeah, just feeding someone doesn't do much to improve their situation, imagine that!

    I tried to read your whole post, but I couldn't stand the narrow mindedness. I got to the paragraph about the starving parents being child torturers and child killers, so I skipped the paragraph. Then I skipped the next one.

    These people are not educated, and they don't have access to family planning resources. Plus some religious groups tell them that condoms cause aids. It's a wonder that aids is a problem over there. There is a distinct lack of stable government in those regions and the people suffer for it.

    The reason that donating $1 mil doesn't help much is that money isn't the real problem. They need education and infrastructure. It does take money to get those things, and much of the money that developed nations give in aid is used for that purpose, but just donating money to feed people doesn't elevate them. It, as you say, just prolongs their current existence. Charity works fine when you aren't just giving liquid funds, but are also helping them decide how the spend it and are helping do the things that need to be done.

    I saw a news story recently about how China gave aid to a developing country on the condition that they spend the money by hiring chinese contractors to build infrastructure. That's how you help a developing country.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member Dondrei's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    You vastly overestimate the effectiveness of charity.




  8. #8
    IncGamers Member buttershug's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Africa won't start doing well until the population has been reduced enough to the point where it can be supported by the food available in the area.
    Over the last few centuries the wealth taken out of Africa is greater than the charity given it.




  9. #9
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Quote Originally Posted by SnickerSnack View Post
    I saw a news story recently about how China gave aid to a developing country on the condition that they spend the money by hiring chinese contractors to build infrastructure. That's how you help a developing country.
    Depending on how it is done this can be one of the most harmful ways of giving 'aid'.

    If the money was in the form of a Loan then essentially the Chinese government is getting the country it is supposedly giving aid to to employ Chinese contractors on an uncompetitive tender and then pay China back the money with interest.

    Further to that, as the work does not develop skills in the "Aided" country (their own Engineers and laborers don't get to take part in the work and so don't increase their knowledge or skills) the troubled country will then have to keep employing outside contractors to maintain and further develop the infrastructure.

    This is great for China, who get another country to give them lots of money, employ Chinese citizens at premium wages, boost Chinese industry (you can bet all the materials will come from China wherever possible) and secures steady future work for the Chinese contractors.

    For the country being "Helped"... not so much.



  10. #10
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Charity-helping them is hurting them

    Stillman, what's your EBIL KKKonservative Agent number? I didn't see you at the last meeting.

    Charity without perspective often achieves a negative result. Look at the Palestinian refugees, or inner Philly for that matter - people will become accustomed to the charity and simply cease efforts to improve their lot. I far prefer efforts such as those of the Grameen Bank's Muhammad Yunus or Mohammed Bah Abba (both of which are more deserving than AlGore of the Nobel prize) to the bags of UN grain that support the North Korean military.

    One of the least discussed instances of charity's failings was the Green Revolution, when America believed that it could revolutionize agriculture so that the world would be in a better position to feed itself. Interestingly enough, the cited Wiki alludes to lefties disliking it because of the Cold War context (it apparently helped dampen commies' aspirations in India & Mexico), while the same narcissistic "do-gooder" impulse is so often their stock-in-trade. The problems with the Green Revolution were that it doesn't matter if the technology works, when people can't afford it, can't maintain it, or the society won't adjust to it. My Grandfather remembers scores of brand-new combine harvesters in a warehouse in Afghanistan when he arrived, and that they were still sitting in the same warehouse when he left some years later.

    The reason? Someone wanted a kickback.




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