no more attributes

[Mad Mantis]

No one wants a poorer mouse trap, as stat allocation would certainly allow due to certain players not having the knowledge or item-based ability to support the ideal (which is typically enough str/max block or base dex/base energy/rest into vita).

You can still build a poorer mousetrap even with the current system. Since you'll have no knowledge or items to support an ideal skill set-up from the start. It will always be possible to screw up a character. As long as there is any choice you can screw up your character.

You are falling in the same trap as most, assuming that things will be like D2. In D2 (mostly post-LoD) we have that set-up. There is no reason that things should be the same in D3.

By removing the ability to place stats yourself, blizzard not only allows for greater customisation through an increased number of balanced items, but also removes the illusion that the ability to stat customises a character.

You are assuming that there will be an increased number of balanced items to compensate for the lack of stats. I'm afraid that it will lead to a reducing of viable options since people will start to exclude all items that aren't high +stats items. I see it as reducing my customization. However, I must say that this is blatant unfounded negativity on my part until we have more information on the subject.

However, I'm sure it isn't too much to ask that detractors of the current system give certain leeway for the new system. If the removal of the stat system allows for customisation in the following ways: 1) Greater balancing of items, which in turn give control over stats, 2) Better planning for skills due to the knowledge that stats and items will be better balanced and 3) Skill runes, whose balancing is contingent on the former two factors, I daresay there would be greater customisation within the realms of balance.

There certainly is a certain amount of leeway. We know next to nothing about the game at this point. Most of the discussions depend on qualities of the game that aren't announced yet. To be honest most of what we are discussing is pure speculation until we receive more information.

With option number 1) all you are really doing is placing the function of allocating stat points to items. Something I don't think items need since there could be much more useful mods on them instead of just +stats.
numbers 2) and 3) depend heavily on something that we can only assume. Balancing of items and all was better in classic than it was in LoD. I'm hesitant to assume that they'll get it right this time.

On a sidenote, why are people being labelled as "pro-auto"? The way I see it, most of the people who I assume would be "pro-auto" are more like "pro-wait-and-see". Don't see a problem with that.

I grouped the "I like it", "doesn't-bother-me" and "wait-and-see" people into pro-auto because it is shorter to type and the attitude in all three leads to almost the same conclusion. It was not meant as a derogatory term.

What handholding? The way I see it, the only thing they've done by removing stat allocation is to ensure that people don't get screwed over because of inferior stats due to inferior items.

That is hand-holding in my opinion. The lack of death penalties is also hand-holding. You are completely removing the option of failure. Guaranteeing success no matter how careless you are in your handling of your character. Why shouldn't you be screwed over because you put all points in energy for a melee Barb and a skill point in all skills? Why shouldn't you be screwed over because you are using equipment composed entirely of cracked items? Things in games aren't equal and shouldn't be. Without a chance of failure success means nothing at all.

For the record I am not opposed to respecs entirely. I am opposed against respeccing everything freely whenever and wherever you want.

[Akse]

There should definately be a death penalty, it was already stupid that you got some of the exp back if you got back your corpse. But I don't really care if there is HC mode.

Respecs should have some limitations, like high cost that would take some days to farm or something.

[HRP]

Diablo 3 is not Diablo 2. There are different skills and gameplay mechanics at work here, several of which we know we haven't even heard of yet.

They have chosen automatic skill distribution because it works best with whatever else they're implementing in this game.

But hey, I'm biased, I always thought stat distribution was entirely unnecessary.

[Apocalypse]

the good thing is, when i make char plans pre launch i wont have to try and guess at where to put stats also lol

[Generic]

1 Respec per completion of each difficulty level.

50% experience loss per death. ^_^

[Kaeros]

I'm cool with the auto-allocation if there are enough other ways to customize our characters and add depth. Skill Runes could theoretically go a long way towards that, but I'm afraid that they may wind up as nothing more than a gimmicky plaything.

I think that might be the case because of the amount of variety needed with Runes, and how hard it's going to be for Blizzard to manually create that variety. One rune has to effect multiple skills across 5 classes, both visually and technically, and has to scale depending on the quality of the rune. That's an EPIC amount of work if you're talking about something like 20 to 30 runes, which I think is going to be necessary to really make this a worthwhile system to dedicate an entire UI screen to. It really wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard scraps this entire idea at some point.

Since there are no longer stat-reqs on items, I'm interested to see if there will be penalties introduced for over-exerting your class .. such as heavier armors slowing down the weaker casters, or adding a % chance for spells to fail, etc. I certainly think there needs to be some system in place so that things "make sense."

Maybe a good solution would be to encourage classes to wear what they're "supposed to" by adding some smart skills to their trees. The Wizard, for example, could have a skill called "Unhindered Power" that increases their spell damage IF they're wearing cloth armor. This would still leave the door open for alternative builds, and would be another step towards Blizzard's philosophy that characters should be designed around their skills and items.. not stats.

Thoughts?

[Apocalypse]

1 Respec per completion of each difficulty level.

50% experience loss per death. ^_^

you started good then went completly crazy

[poroboszcz]

The thing is that stats in D2 actually helped to keep better balance between items. You needed more strenght to wear a better armor and, for example, you had to sacrifice some vitality to wear CoA, which as reward gave you nice mods. The problem was that stats were not meaningful enough. There were only needed to meet items requirements as all the useful mods came from items. Therefore "enough str for gear, dex for max block, no mana and rest vita" has became the dominant formula.

Now if you look how the stats work in D3,

16 Strength - Physical damage bonus: 16% | Armor Bonus 26%
28 Dexterity - Crit chance 7.0% | Dodge chance: 7.0
18 Vitality - Life: 56 | Mana Regen: 0.9 sec.
94 Willpower - Spell damage bonus: 52.8% | Health globe bonus: 0.0%

and how there are skills that directly benefit from them,

Empowered Magic - Rank 2/15: Increases the effect of willpower on your spell damage by 20%.
Conjured Power - Rank 0/15: Increases damage done by spells by 1% for every 10 points of vitality.
Static Charge - Rank 0/15: Convert 5% of all damage taken into mana.

you can see how they are much more meaningful than they were in D2 and that there is a lot of room for experimenting with different builds. And even if most of that builds would end up being crap, there is still a lot of fun in playing around with stats to figure out what placement works best. This fun was a big part of D2 and now it's being taken away with auto-placement system.

The other thing is that without requirements on items and too much class-specific gear the customization is even more limited. Now the number of possible builds for each class is being dictated by developers rather than being left to players imagination. It's like "Ok, you can have your melee wizard - just use this sword, which we've made for your build, but the other one, that you might like to use has been specifficaly designed for a barb."

[Swordslash]

the thruth is most of the complainers shouldn't be talkinf @#$% about the game taht not even came out yet.
just wait and see with your own eyes, because ,at least I hope, that de devs Know what they are doing and I its probably the most efficient way to make a wonderfull game such as D3 gotta be

So, why have a forum then? Oh yeah, to discuss things, and occasionally DISAGREE about them.

[Gigashadow]

What annoys me about complaining is definitive accusations such as "Blizzard fails because they removed attributes". It seem to me that most people do not even want to stop and think about "why"...