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  1. #141
    IncGamers Member Paalt's Avatar
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    Re: no more attributes

    The thing is, if they put allocated stat points into D2 now, I wouldn't care because the stat system is broken. But in D3 there's a stat system that look very interesting, and I really want to play around with it. The fun of planning builds is of course even more fun when you have more parameters. Since they axed half of them, I understand people get pissed. But as stated before, and having seen the new runes system, I think the stat system will be replaced with something just as fun. However, until that "thing" is announced, It really itches to manually assign attribute points.

    Yet, why did they do this? Jay, said it is to prevent people to break their character. Yet they have confirmed respecs? And how about that "recommended" button that put points like the auto system will? I don't think he is honest, because the argument why they implement this do not make much sense. There is better ways to prevent people to screw this up!

    I would buy the argument of skill balance. I noticed that some skills enhance damage output based on your stat. That sort of skill would be broken if we could manually place attribute points.

    It would be just like D2:
    Str/Dex for items
    Vita is not your best buy anymore, ignore!
    Everything else into Willpower.

    So now you have a Wizard with say 350 Willpower. A lvl 15 Empowered Magic enhances the damage bonus by say 50% Damage, and then you have like 10 other passives to beef up damage.

    Glass cannon builds galore.



  2. #142
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: no more attributes

    I think the most important thing to do about this debate is to word and bring the question to Jay something like in this manner:

    "The biggest concern players have about auto-assigned stats is about the viability of creating out-of-archetype builds. Many players enjoyed giving unusual equipment for their classes - high strength items for casters (titan sorc, melee necro, etc.), building barbarians as casters (singers), focusing a paladin as a bow user, etc. How do you plan to address their fears that auto-assigning base stats will significantly limit their freedom to make such builds?"

    If we get an answer that indicates true removal of such variance, start your petitions and flood the battle.net forums. If we get an answer that indicates that such builds are still very possible and variance was not limited as much as we fear, we relax and wait to see what they have in store for us.




  3. #143
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: no more attributes

    thats pretty much how i see it, right now with the info we(I) have i am against it, if they come out and fully explain thier point of view maybe my opinion changes



  4. #144
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    Re: no more attributes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Cosby View Post
    Who wants to start the petition?
    Stopped reading there.

    /facepalm



  5. #145
    IncGamers Site Pal Bad Ash's Avatar
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    Re: no more attributes

    Well im glad you can take a joke then. Even if i was only half joking about the petition...lighten up a little bit. Why waste your time to tell us you stopped reading the 15 pages of threads after the 4th post? What does that accomplish? lol.

    Hopefully because of all this interest and reaction from us the blizzard team comes out and says SOMETHING about it. Even if they confirm 100% that there will be not any single way for us to manually add stats outside of items, at least it is a final word and we can really get into the *****ing!

    Heres a good way to fix the problem: Add items.

    ::Helm of the Ancients::
    +2 to skills
    +100 to Str
    +100 to Dex
    +100 to Vit
    +100 to Willpower
    -200 resists

    or something like that. It doesnt even have to be that godly (except fo rthe resists) just have an item that gives +100 to str. then it opens up the game for every single char in the game to do what they want. Dont have any intention of making a melee sorc? then you dont need the helm.




  6. #146
    IncGamers Member Jodaus's Avatar
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    Re: no more attributes

    I actually like this idea.

    By making the attributes static, the dev team can do a lot more with class-specific itemizing to make gear that caters more directly to any given spec. Sure, you can't equip some godly +STR weapon on a WD since it requires a minimum of 200 STR to begin with, but instead there will be weapons intended for the WD for people who want to melee. Instead of placing your attributes to gear up that way, they gave us Runes and Orbs that not only augment items, but skills. If you want a weapon on your wizard solely because it has great +Fire Damage but can't because of stat requirements, you can slot your actual skill with a Rune to add the fire damage instead. Each skill has one open slot underneath it on the skill trees. The only drawback was that it looked like you could only rune up one skill per tree (the first rune I had slotted went back to my inventory when I tried slotting a second skill) so I guess we'll just have to see how powerful those can get and how well they augment your chosen skill at higher levels before a true comparison can be made.

    From what I experienced, the current Rune system is working very similar to how the new Inscription profession will be in WoW. That adds a different kind of customization than what manually slotting your attributes grants, but customization nonetheless.



  7. #147
    D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator Mad Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: no more attributes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jodaus View Post
    Sure, you can't equip some godly +STR weapon on a WD since it requires a minimum of 200 STR to begin with, but instead there will be weapons intended for the WD for people who want to melee.
    You are counting on the developers to envision all the builds that people want to play and cater to these build with specifically designed items. That seems like a hell of a lot more work than allowing us to place attributes.




  8. #148
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    Re: no more attributes

    So hang on a minute. The solution proposed to the removal of assignable stats is to...make it possible to buck the trend with absurdly powerful items?

    Make no mistake -the already huge emphasis on items is down to a few very simple things: Almost every bonus you can get from gear is stackable meaning that it is possible to acquire so many +skills and so much +mana, +dex and +str from gear that it makes 55k light sorcs possible with zero investment in mana, strength or dexterity. This is partly the reason why 3 of the 4 attributes currently in d2 are redundant for most people except for very specific builds - glass cannon strafe zons (all dex), nova/es sorcs (all energy) and many pvp builds where max blocking prevents instant death against BvCs and the like.

    Anyone who has played any iteration of d&d will see in action what I consider to be a more elegant system. You still have incredibly desirable and powerful items in d&d but many bonuses from items are not stackable. Enhancement bonuses to AC for example which prevents most character classes from getting an AC so high that absolutely nothing can hit you except on a critical hit.

    On the downside, it does place very real barriers on the types of builds you can turn out using a single character class. D&D's solution to this problem was to create a large number of base classes and an absolutely ridiculous number of prestige classes to allow interesting hybrid styles like Gish (casters that use spells like wraith strike and self buffs to become better fighters than fighter's are). You can equate that to the melee sorc in D2.

    The other thing is skills on items. These are almost exclusively runewords like Enigma which allows any class to Teleport and Call to Arms which allows any class to prebuff with Battle Orders. It makes a number of builds possible that are otherwise not (bear sorc for example).

    Also whoever said bow necros suck in d2 hasn't played one. I've played a bow sorc and it frankly rules. My only problem was in certain PvP matchups like versus BvC barbs and against anyone that can basically mass absorb fire damage using items like hot spurs, rising sun and dwarf star.

    Whoever said melee sorcs suck in d2 never played one. Melee sorcs are some of the hardest hitters you will ever play. I've seen a Bear sorc packing something crazy like 130k elemental damage kill Hell Diablo in about 4 hits. It was hilarious. They have a funny swagger too.



  9. #149
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    Re: no more attributes

    I've never seen so many wild end-of-the-world assumptions. Why would Blizzard kill off the ability to produce wierd, subpar, challenging and fun builds? They're probably not going to. The notion that they're forcing us to wear only cloth on a wizard is absurd.

    The way I see it, they just took all the customization you would get out of stats and moved it all over to skills. I mean, there's over 60 skills per chr and that's only up to lev 20. If you want to make a heavy axe wizard, there's probably 6 skills that cater to that build. You just have to figgure out which skills they are and max them out. So it will take a bit more thinking. You have to max out that certain combo of skills, whereas in d2, you said, "I'll obviously need str and dex for my heavy axe sorc, and obviously enchant".

    60 is a whole lot. There may even end up being a skill called "Fire Axe". Or, you want to be a throwing star using wizard? Well there's a spell called "Magic Throwing Stars And Lots of Them". And if they don't do it this way (making it easy), there's the more d2ish way where you have to look hard at the seemingly useless skills and put them together in a creative way to get your usable melee wizard. It's all about the skills now.

    There are endless ways they could allow us to use heavy armor on a wizard. There could be a quest reward that takes off the str requirement of any one armor you chose. There may be low level skills that specifically allow your wizard to wear more armor. Then there's Tyreal's might with it's req -100% mod which they could tack on as a regular mod, though maybe a bit rarer, to many items. There might be a buffing spell that gives you more str or dex or w/e and your wierd build just has to cast it every 6 minutes.

    I still don't see how Blizzard is preventing you from having your variety of builds. I think you guys are talking about the absolute worst case scenario. You're talking as though Blizzard said "we don't want there to be singers or bowpallys like there were in d2."



  10. #150
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: no more attributes

    Surprising? Definitely.

    End of the world? No.

    Look at the track record. Blizzard has yet to make an unsuccessful major title. I'm confident that D3 will be fun, even if it's not fun in the same ways D2 was.



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