thrower barb (viable in hell?) testing build plan

[HegemonKhan]

i'm slowly working on a thrower (only lvl 22 right now) to see if i can make him viable in hell.
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i would be very appreciative of any suggestions and thoughts and help with this experiment!
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background info:

i've got 2 throwers right now (both around lvl 20). one has all pts into str. the ohter has all pts into dex. this was to see how throwing is effected by stats. it seems that throwing receives 1% damage increase with either 2 str or 2 dex.

*need to test if this changes depending on weapon type, throwing axes vs javelins, or if its how ANY weapon damage works when THROWN.

now that i found out that both 2 pts into str or dex gives 1% damage increase (i think, unless weapon type changes this), i'm gonna stick with my all pts into dex thrower. dex is better than str as it gives AR where str doesn't. though base str and low level is limiting his gear right now, until at least i can get higher lvl and use the +str items i got.

i've decided to go max damage, even though i know its not enough. i wanna first try to make this thrower like a pure/high dex strafezon. like a strafezon even with maximizing damage its still awfully low, and a throw barb's damage is even lower than strafe zon, if that's beleivibly possible:P

i'm not sure how often he'll die. but thats not my goal. my goal is hell viablility. which means able to kill in hell and hell cs. dying doesn't really matter too much in softcore, except at high character levels.
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my plan (same build for this thrower as for a srafezon basically):
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stats:

1. maximum damage, despite how low it is. pure (or nearly all into) dex for damage and AR. hopefully use +str on gear for gear self providing its needs so i can not waste pts into str since i can get the SAME damage AND AR with dex instead.
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gear:

1. CB/OW gear because i know damage will be too low to kill on its own. CB/OW will take monster to near death and the maximum damage will (hopefully) be able to finish off/kill the monsters in hell and hell cs.
2. fastest attack speed. since damage is low (like with strafe) we need to make up for it with speed (more hits more damage).
3. probably will need knockback/flee on gear to stay alive, since a barb doesnt have a valkyrie like a strafezon can.
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my gear ideas:

0. duel throw (use two throwing weapons)(double throw skill), no shield. for more damage since two weapons are better than one. 2 hits does more damage than 1 hit. though barb will be more vulnerible byt doing this cuz of no shield.

1. fastest, most damaging throwing weapons (harpoons i think do most damage of all throwing)(though for FLAVOR, i'd rather do throwing axes as javs are more for zons, where axes are more for barbs. flavor wise)

2. CB/OW gear: CB=rattle cage or OW=bone flesh? (whatever its name), CB=goblin toes,

3. IAS gear: 20% IAS twitch, 30% IAS death sash+gloves or 30% ias sigon gloves+helmet (since boots are taken by goblin toe), 10% IAS bloodfist or any glove with 10% IAS, 20% IAS iratha gloves? + helm? or belt? (forgot if iratha has a helm or belt)

4. FHR gear: 20% FHR twitch, 30% FHR bloodfist

5. resist gear: as much resists on gear as can

6. knockback gear: ?% knockback howltusk? (whatever its name), ?% knockback cleg gloves

7. flee gear: ?% flee howltusk (whatever its name), ?% flee rattle cage

8. blind gear: coif (whatever its name) helm

9. slow/cold gear: cleg gloves, eye of eltch (whatever its name) amulet

10. rings: angelic (AR), or best rings possible (+str,+dex, +skills, LL, ML, resists, AR, etc.)

11. amulet: angelic (ar), or best amelet possible (+str,+dex, +skills, LL, ML, resists, AR, etc.)

12. belt (non-already mentioned ones): best belt possible, lenymo (5% all resist, mana regen), snakecord (poison damage), other unique belts?

13. helmet (non-already mentioned ones): best helm possible, bigguns (30% damage), face of horror? or terror? (can't remember name) (?% flee, +20 str), other unique helmets?

u guys/girls' gear suggestions for me?
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skills (~40-60 sk pts used):

1. max throwing mastery (damage, AR, 2x damage chance), max double swing (damage synergy for double throw), at least 1 pt into double throw (our attack), at least 1 pt into frenzy (for more attack speed and walk/run speed), max frenzy probably (for its attack speed unless i dont need it)

2. rest of sk pts: NOT SURE.
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my thoughts on rest of skills:

3. if need more AR, than max double throw. though it be better if i didnt waste pts into it as it only gives AR

4. if need/want more attack speed, than max frenzy (probably worth it unless i dont need the extra attack speed).

5. rest of pts, maybe into:

5a. battle cry? (for lowering enemy defense rating and damage)?
5b. warcry? (for stun)
5c. iron skin and shout? (for a high defense throwing barb, this would mean many other changes in the build as well)
5d. nat res? (for resists, doh)
5e. taunt? (for less monster damage and defense and turn most monsters into harmless melee)
5f. leap (for knockback-stun)
5g. grim totem skill (whatever it called:P)? (for survivilbity: free attacks kinda, since monsters run away, without being in danger)

you guys'/girls' skills suggestions for me: ??????

[fledgeling]

I was thinking of making such a barb of my own, but I didnt have enough time to play.
Basically I never managed to do the DEX or STR experiment.

Dex should give you enough AR, to be able NOT to use angelic rings/amulet methinks. If not, you could max double throw.

I think frenzy is useless, but maybe it depends on style. As for the low life - ask Warlock, he has a titan (400++ str, 25 vita I think).

Dex should give you like 3k AR methinks, or even more, plus some pityful defense.
I was planning 20BO, 20 mastery, 20 double throw, ~8 natural res (or maybe more?) and around 6 increased speed (to be able to run away, as goblins are slow).
Basically this would be a speeder, but using double throw instead of WW and different mastery. Perhaps 1 point into the grim totem, as it has some uses, but I never used it enough to say that (I put that skill on my CROSSBOW-barb, but dont have time to level him - he is level 35 at the moment).

As for items, I was thinking very similar to you, I think:
death's gloves + either howltusk or face of horror. This would give some res, cold immunity, low life leech and knockback which would be better than sigons (sigons wouldnt allow knockback and I think you dont need the AR).
Another helmet option would be a 114hp helmet (3 rubies), as it would be multiplied by BO.

As for boots either goblins or some 30frw/res rares, but crushing blow is needed IMO.

You could get a +2barb, 20 str, COLD damage amulet (perhaps even with prism, as cold damage makes an amulet useless for both BvB (you get hit more often LOL) and MF barb (you cant hork)) and 9minimum damage rings, preferably with some mana leech (wonder if it would be enough!) and other useful stats (resists?).

The last item would be the armor. Either twitch or boneflesh IMO. Goblins give you enough crushing blow anyway I think and open wounds can do probably even more damage than your attacks if it triggers.

I was trying to track the highest dmg weapon, I think I made a thread here and someone answered.

[HegemonKhan]

cool, thanks for the reply and suggestions.

i'm still only at lvl 22 so i'm in the very early stages so all this is basically pre-planning and ideas before i really get into the throw barb with higher levels.

i shoulda said that i'm just trying to make a pvm thrower for hell. not gonna do any dueling. for me i dont think ima put any into bo. i'd rather use sk pts else where. especially since i'm not gonna put pts into vit since i wanna do dex for more damage and ar. if u only got ~500 life, bo doesnt make much difference and is a waste, compared to having 400-500 pts into vit with 32 or 33 bo. i forgot to mention the +min/+max damage on rings. those mods are very helpful for low damage builds with fast attack speed. the angelic items for ar definately should not be needed. unless u jsut wanna see how much ar u'll ahve with them:P. as u get huge AR from throwing skills and high/pure dex build. jsut mentioned them to be complete. grim totem is actually really cool. puts all monsters into flee and when monsters r in flee they arent trying to kill u. the problem is they run away, though they run back really fast too, its still slowed killing speed but good for surviviblity. my goal/mission is killing power in hell and hell cs, making the thrower viable, if its possible. i think frenzy will be worth maxing. at the very least, even if u can already hit the fastest BP for your throwing weapons with gear, u can use frenzy attack speed instead and change the gear to something else. so i feel frenzy is probably worth it as u need all the attack speed u can get since u do such low damage. also fast attack speed is good with CB or knockback or etc. as well.

[EagleEntek]

Very interested in your skill pt, stat, dmg, and gear info out of interest - how is he doing so far ?

[HegemonKhan]

i haven't worked on him yet. he's still only lvl 22 in act 2 norm. i'll post updates when i work on him, get him higher lvl and tell if he's working or not and problems etc. i find as i play etc.

(i've been mfing with other character a bit trying to get good gear like rares and some uniques i havent got yet. i'll start playing my thrower, though. and get back to u guys on how he's doing and stuff.)

it might take some time. cuz im playing sp which takes longer when u cant quest rush and have another high level character help u with quests or exp killing monsters. it really is a drag having to do act3 getting the quest items instead of jsut having a character give u meph wp:P

[HegemonKhan]

update on thrower (only lvl 25 though, just started to play him again, +3 levels from last time at lvl 22):

i've learned a few things though:

1. i'm now thinking that its better to put all pts into str now. the reason is that each 2 into str/dex increases thrown damage by 1%. but str also increase melee damage vs dex giving more AR. the AR is nice but probably not needed and i'd rather have more damage to melee than AR. so i now think all into str is better than all into dex. by doing all into str u increase damage to BOTH thrown (double throw and throwing mast) and melee (for frenzy and double swing) damage but lose out on AR. if u do all into dex u only get increase damage to thrown but u get AR. also with all into str instead of dex u can equip str req gear easily. makes gear management/wearing easier. also give u the option if u dont wanna use unique gear for damage mods and stuff u can use high def gear instead cuz u are putting all pts into str so u'll have the needed str to wear the high def gear should u decide u wanna go with it instead of the unique gear for damage mods and stuff.

2a. i finally remembered to get hell difficulty act 4 javelins on high character and atma (playing sp) xfer them over to my low level thrower. damage is MUCH nicer and moving along much quicker now cuz of it. i wasn't able to or no harpoons were in shop to buy, so i'm just using the weaker type javelins (forgot their name). they do about 16-32 weapon damage and can only hold 60 in their stack. but with the skills (char lvl 25 with all into dex: 18 throw mast, 5 double swing, 1 double throw, 1 frenzy, 1 bash (preq.) and gear (twitch, face of horror, angelic amulet and rings, sig gloves and boots and belt) i am doing 60-200 damage with my double throw damage. with 50% IAS from gear, fast or normal WIAS on javs, frenzy lvl 1 boast at 60-200 damage i'm tearing through norm now easy. only problem is with this speed u go through the only 60 stack size fast so i have to go to town before i hit zero and replenish the hell diffuculty act 4 jav stack as i cant buy them from the norm difficulty store in act 2:P this is kinda annoying but cant do much about it, right now.

2b. throwing axes get a much larger stack size than javs but i wanted the most damage so i bought the javs instead. i probably shoulda put on mana leech rings instead of using angelics but the mana potting isn't that big of a deal compared to the frequent town visits i have to do.

3. i've found that throwing axes have NO RANGE (like 60-100) in damage (either for melee or thrown or both, can't remember, when i go back to play i'll figure this out and tell u on here next time i post). they do the same damage every time. lets say its 60. instead of the usual range of damage lets say 40-80 that most weapons do.

4. flee is very nice for a thrower. flee is really sweet for thrower:

u throw. u hit until flee triggers on them. they stop attacking u. they turn around. they move away (flee) from u. u keep throwing. u hit them in their back until they dead. sweet!
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1. i'm still only in norm act 2, so i have no idea how the damage will do/be in nm and later hell. also no idea on surviviblity too in nm and hell.

2. also, i still haven't got rattle cage or goblin toe..... or silks or goldskin. GRR

(so thats why i'm not using rattle cage or goblin toe on my thrower, cuz i don't have them yet:P)

3. i do have boneflesh but OW is more powerful with higher character levels, and i'm only lvl 25 so OW from boneflesh would be weak and not worth it right now. speed from twitch is better, IMO, right now.

4. even though i now think all str is better than all dex, i'm gonna stick with the all dex thrower right now. than i'll go and use my all str thrower and level him up. though this will take time to level up two characters. but if/when i get done i can then compare and contrast the two types. their pros n cons and strengths and weaknesses and difficulties and easiness etc..

[SHINOBIPANDA]

well this is what i found out by making a throw barb. first if its either a pk or cser get battle cry to a high lvl to do more dmg. i happened to make a thrower but he ended up being a lld cause it took way to much time just to get to nm. for gear i use bloodfist, manalds, etlich , gorefoot for speed and leap. my throw barb was for pk/tpk so i could leap stun them and throw, twitch for all the sexyness it has, since it was a lld i used throwing knives but im still testing on weather(lol) or not to use those or throw pots. im not shure if the throw dmg bonus is added to throw pots. i also used tarn and a harus belt. im tryin to get a better lld belt for lvl 16 lld. im in us west sc nl if any1 has.. sorry if that breaks any rules lol.thats about it

[HegemonKhan]

well this is what i found out by making a throw barb. first if its either a pk or cser get battle cry to a high lvl to do more dmg. i happened to make a thrower but he ended up being a lld cause it took way to much time just to get to nm. for gear i use bloodfist, manalds, etlich , gorefoot for speed and leap. my throw barb was for pk/tpk so i could leap stun them and throw, twitch for all the sexyness it has, since it was a lld i used throwing knives but im still testing on weather(lol) or not to use those or throw pots. im not shure if the throw dmg bonus is added to throw pots. i also used tarn and a harus belt. im tryin to get a better lld belt for lvl 16 lld. im in us west sc nl if any1 has.. sorry if that breaks any rules lol.thats about it

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if u wanna talk about dueling (LLD) than u should post stuff in the LLD thread.

here is the link for the LLD thread:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=636022
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the title of my (this) thread is:

thrower barb (viable in hell?) testing build plan

this thread is about a PVM (NOT pvp) thrower if he can be made to be able to do hell difficulty and hell cs.

when u say put point into battle cry to do more damage, do u mean so that u lower monster def rating so that u can hit them more to do more damage? battle cry does not otherwise cause u to do more damage. am i gonna need battle cry to hit monsters in hell? this info would be useful for this thread.
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this is off topic, but if u gather any info/facts about throwing pots, and post it on here i'd be greatful as thats one thing i haven't explored yet, throwing pots.

but don't post on this thread make a new thread and call it throwing pots or something like that.

[SHINOBIPANDA]

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if u wanna talk about dueling (LLD) than u should post stuff in the LLD thread.

here is the link for the LLD thread:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=636022
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the title of my (this) thread is:

thrower barb (viable in hell?) testing build plan

this thread is about a PVM (NOT pvp) thrower if he can be made to be able to do hell difficulty and hell cs.

when u say put point into battle cry to do more damage, do u mean so that u lower monster def rating so that u can hit them more to do more damage? battle cry does not otherwise cause u to do more damage. am i gonna need battle cry to hit monsters in hell? this info would be useful for this thread.
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this is off topic, but if u gather any info/facts about throwing pots, and post it on here i'd be greatful as thats one thing i haven't explored yet, throwing pots.

but don't post on this thread make a new thread and call it throwing pots or something like that.

sorry bout the lld thing the gear is useful in hell to exept for like the ammy, rings, and belt. i would say that a throw barb could do fine in hell as long as they had a good party. if you were goin to solo i would think he couldnt survive. battle cry decreases defence and something else and less def rating means more dmg.

[Razputin]

NO damage bonuses at all do anything to the pot damage, it is just a fixed generic elemental damage that can never be changed :smiley:

Sounds a fun build to try, although as you say nm and hell will start to get tricky to level in i would guess.

2. also, i still haven't got rattle cage or goblin toe..... or silks or goldskin. GRR

What realm are you in? I have a spare Rattlecage on EU SC ladder which you can have for free if you like.