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  1. #11
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    Just fine is probably a standard not up to my par. If you cant teleport, you cant stack and you will find yourself out in front of your army a lot. I cant have that.

    Yeah most runes are duped. We can still blame them for causing lag. they should be on when no one else is anyways.

    Yes it is my opinion, but I think it is shared by many that people dont like slow characters.


    Im not saying its the only possible.

    There are tons of better options if you are not a casting necro. If I wasnt a caster, I would have +3 circ/+3 Ammy, coh or trangs armor, a bunch of mf. I'd have boneflame and Aokl and sojs. My build is a caster summoner expected to be fast and lethal.

    There are several options. I am just saying for a casting Summoner, it doesnt get any faster or better than this set up.



  2. #12
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    My Summoner is a caster.
    Caster of what? Tele and curses? Get real guy, you are a summoner, you may be a summoner that has reached the next fastest FCR BP, but you are a summoner none the less.

    Carin Shard Wand (yep, doesn’t get more godly than this. Hoto doesn’t hold a candle to it.)
    Huh? The wand definately is not crap and could be included on a list of "other" viable weapons, but it is a compromise, Hoto and wizzy have more to offer as far as FCR and resists, skills from Hoto lower tele cost and boost CE range. Beast helps your peeps alot more. Have no idea why this wand would be picked as an Uber summoner, er... I mean, caster weapon.

    First of all this merc is lousy. Iron Maiden owns him and his proximity to the action renders his death many more times than it should at this level of the game. Not only that but his contribution to your main body of damage is meager.
    I do concede that Act2 mercs get owned by IM, it is fairly common knowledge, but nothing else in the entire game kills my merc, even ubers, so I don't know why yours is getting "owned" so much. As far as "meager damage contribution"...are you kidding? Everyone knows that when you get to late game hell it is CE that does the damage, not skellies, and the single best way for a summoner to get that 1st body for the CE chain is with an Act2 merc. The damage per second these guys do compared to act1 merc, including CB (CB is nerfed on ranged attack and act1 mercs can't hold as much anyway), would have to be close to 5 times more. Someone already mentioned this but the difference between fana and might only comes out to like 100 damage per skellie, and the mercs insane damage more than makes up for this. While your zon and skellies are hacking away, I have already blown up the whole screen and moved on to the next. Act2 mercs will probably kill a boss faster by himself than your act1 merc and army combined.

    As far as IM, I use confuse in those situations, if you have to, remove your mercs polearm, these pretty much eliminate the problem. Besides I don't feel that "nerfing" my setup so that I have an easier time with 10% of the game and am significantly slower for the other 90% is such a good idea.

    Infinity golem does not die unless you are retarded and let him. With bo + Golem mastery synergy, he is indestructable. Use a low damage scythe and he isnt going anywhere.
    It is common knowledge that golems do occasionally poof, it just happens, it will happen. Read the forums, it is full of people complaining about iron golems randomly poofing. Infinity is way too expensive to have poof.


    Last edited by NumtyDoo; 02-04-2008 at 13:15.

  3. #13
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    Quote Originally Posted by NumtyDoo View Post
    Caster of what? Tele and curses? Get real guy, you are a summoner, you may be a summoner that has reached the next fastest FCR BP, but you are a summoner none the less.

    Huh? The wand definately is not crap and could be included on a list of "other" viable weapons, but it is a compromise, Hoto and wizzy have more to offer as far as FCR and resists, skills from Hoto lower tele cost and boost CE range. Beast helps your peeps alot more. Have no idea why this wand would be picked as an Uber summoner, er... I mean, caster weapon.

    I do concede that Act2 mercs get owned by IM, it is fairly common knowledge, but nothing else in the entire game kills my merc, even ubers, so I don't know why yours is getting "owned" so much. As far as "meager damage contribution"...are you kidding? Everyone knows that when you get to late game hell it is CE that does the damage, not skellies, and the single best way for a summoner to get that 1st body for the CE chain is with an Act2 merc. The damage per second these guys do compared to act1 merc, including CB (CB is nerfed on ranged attack and act1 mercs can't hold as much anyway), would have to be close to 5 times more. While your zon and skellies are hacking away, I have already blown up the whole screen and moved on to the next. Act2 mercs will probably kill a boss faster by himself than your act1 merc and army combined.

    As far as IM, I use confuse in those situations, if you have to, remove your mercs polearm, these pretty much eliminate the problem. Besides I don't feel that "nerfing" my setup so that I have an easier time with 10% of the game and am significantly slower for the other 90% is such a good idea.
    Please re consider the weapon choices. Wizzy and hoto dont offer the amount of mana and life as carin. If you follow my gear selection you hit 125% fcr without the need of a huge fcr weapon.

    Wave 4 minions revived kill baal in seconds. I'd rather summon them for the bosses than have a merc who forces me to use beast.

    every other boss dies in seconds without vives or even 10 skeletons.

    You can either be a running summoner or a caster. If you have nigma, you are a caster, get your fcr up and be a real caster. none of this 48-75% fcr bull****.


    You guys need to try the act 1 merc. You are all way too stuck on act 2 merc and there is no reason. I just showed you how to get every single one of the good auras (fanat, conviction, thorns) and better fanat than with beast.

    Go ahead and step outside the box guys.



  4. #14
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    I am not saying that your build is not viable, I am sure that it is. I don't think that anyone is saying that, but this guide is far from uber, as damage and kill speed have not been close to maximized. I believe that is the spirit of everyone critisism.

    You guys need to try the act 1 merc. You are all way too stuck on act 2 merc and there is no reason. I just showed you how to get every single one of the good auras (fanat, conviction, thorns) and better fanat than with beast.
    What you have shown me is a way to lose an infinity (poofed conviction golem), nerf my killing speed (act1 merc), and use an aura that has been rendered meager by the relationship between monster life and damage(thorns).

    You can either be a running summoner or a caster. If you have nigma, you are a caster, get your fcr up and be a real caster. none of this 48-75% fcr bull****.
    I still do not see how tele makes you a caster, when 90% of your spells are summons, your a summoner...your just in denial. What is the point in tele'ing twice as fast, just to kill 3 times slower?

    You guys need to try the act 1 merc. You are all way too stuck on act 2 merc and there is no reason. I just showed you how to get every single one of the good auras (fanat, conviction, thorns) and better fanat than with beast.
    I had an act1 faith merc with bramble before I got my infinity. Act2 might merc with infinity is faster, removed the bramble for CoH and didn't lose any killing speed. Thorns isn't what it used to be, besides most things don't live long enough against my act2 merc to even get to taste thorns.

    Go ahead and step outside the box guys.
    If you read the forums you will see that most of these things have been tried and tested, many of the posts even have the math to back up the observations, there is a reason why 90% of the people use the same end game gear/setup, because it is the best. It has gotten to the point now where equipment is almost never argued over, it has been so well discussed it just comes down to play style now, hoto vs beast, and homo vs spirit. The only real discussion left for necros is what to max last (DV, mages, golem mastery, or Bone armor) You thinking outside the box has created an interesting and viable build, but you sacrifice too much for FCR and for fear of IM, and damage wise the build is nowhere near uber.



  5. #15
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    Quote Originally Posted by mephistophilis View Post
    I usually go from lvl 45 for calculation but thats no matter.

    Cap and delay is semantics...ultimately Bnet just slows them down to reduce lag but my point stands.
    Your point was that Faith does a lot more damage than Might, which it really doesn't. So there it goes. The difference between a cap and a delay is far from symantical and you didn't show to understand the delay in your calculation example which is why I put emphasis on the word.




  6. #16
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    I play a lot of what I call "pure summoners" as in I only use summons and curses with out CE or any other poison/bone skill. Resists are really the only "essential" thing. +Skills are great to have but I have finished the game with out them. Teleport is also a great skill to have but not necessary. It makes the maggit layer goes better with Teleport. Otherwise I used self found in game items.

    Also how is this really significantly different from a Fishymancer? IMHO I think your idea is worth a post but not a guide.

    JubalBane



  7. #17
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    I suggest go play around with the necro calculator. Check the difference in damage with a faith merc and a might merc + beast. IMO faith merc should go to zons, not necros. (IIRC we can link to this calc, correct me if I am wrong)

    http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/ne...alculator.html

    By the way, where does your anti soul gear come in? Your resist is crap as far as I can tell.



    Last edited by AnimeCraze; 02-04-2008 at 15:05.

  8. #18
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    Quote Originally Posted by mephistophilis View Post
    Feel free to debate me, but overall, its going to be awfully hard to prove me wrong.
    Making a baseless statement like this is inviting people to work very hard to do just that. Calling your guide "Incontestable Greatness" is ridiculous man. I'm all for you being proud of your build, but when you add a "holier than thou" aspect to your post, that puts people on the defensive from the get-go. If you want people to take you seriously, you really need to avoid those kinds of statements.

    I won't go and re-hash everything Numty or the other folks have said. They have done a great job illustrating what's strong about a summoner when made properly and debating your points.

    The bottom line is that a summoner is a summoner. He's not a sorc that has to cast Frozen Orb at the highest breakpoint. CE is a mass destruction spell, and as such the speed at which you cast it isn't really that important. When you wipe out half the screen with one or two casts, fcr doesn't make things die any faster. The only place FCR has on a summoner is to make enigma effective, and you certainly don't have to hit the highest breakpoint to be effective with teleport. When your act 2 might merc with Infinity turns Baal or DClone into a pile of goo in 30 seconds, you don't have to think much about whether you want to use an act 1 merc with Faith.


    You are all so stuck on beast with a2 merc and it bothers me. You aren't using your summoner to your fullest potential.
    When you realize that a summoner is a summoner and not a caster, the gear choices people make will make a lot more sense. Is your build viable? I would imagine so, or you wouldn't be writing this. But seriously, using a summoner to it's fullest potential? Give me a break. You being stuck on an Infinity golem and a act 1 merc with Faith bothers me.



    Last edited by shijo; 02-04-2008 at 15:17.

  9. #19
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    Quote Originally Posted by NumtyDoo View Post
    I
    I still do not see how tele makes you a caster, when 90% of your spells are summons, your a summoner...your just in denial. What is the point in tele'ing twice as fast, just to kill 3 times slower?
    Whether it is for key runs or tele stacking, I cast tele far more often than I cast a summon spell. I wouldn't make an enigma summoner without hitting the 75fcr + 56fhr breakpoints. Tele-stack and ce is a valid play style, and one that benefits greatly from FCR/FHR.

    I'm not knocking anything else you've said, or saying that this guide is great.




  10. #20
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    Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

    My five cents (adjusted for inflation):

    The reason he is calling it a caster is his play strategy. If you're teleing right into the center of monster packs, you damn well better have that highest breakpoint, as well as a really high break point for FHR. My take is that this necro is about stick and move, stick and move, not insane amounts of damage. Hence the choice of an act 1 merc. It sounds like he is running chaos and baal a lot. Anyone who does that with an Act 2 merc is going to spend a lot of time at Tyrael/Qual Kek. To avoid this, he uses a merc with good damage that is unaffected by IM. I have no doubt in my mind that this build will get that first body or two in seconds or less. Once you have those, the merc is irrelevant.

    THAT said most people will not favor this play style. The easier and safer choice is to use the act 2 merc. With decent life leach and good gear you should only have problems with IM. There are tons of solutions to this problem, not the least of which is just paying 50k to res him. With decent MF and with the amount of time you're spending at town selling your finds, why not use one extra trip every now and then?

    Also the Golem dying is not really the issue most people are bringing up. They're worried that the buggy nature of the game will poof a really expensive item. EVERY Necro who has played with Iron Golem for a decent amount of time has had him poof for no reason before. What good are the godly finds you get with this build if you have something of equal value vanish periodically?

    The way the delay works is the skellies attack at whatever frame rate they have reached, then wait for 15 frames before attacking again. That is why everyone is pointing out the fact that the higher break point for the skellies doesn't increase damage that much.


    Last edited by IntellectSucks; 02-04-2008 at 15:35. Reason: Forgot to add about skellie delay

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