Sara's Rift-a-Sin PVM

[skyjuice]

I'm kind of confused by the note stating that one needs 172 strength for boots. Up'd Goblin Toes should only require 163, and even shadowdancers only require 167, with up'd Gore riders being the least at 25% off of 208 = 156. Am I missing something silly?

Mirror boots goblin toes : 163 str, lvl 72 req
Myr boots gore riders: 156 str, lvl 72 req

Those confirmed by me in-game.

Lvl 85 and currently have 20 stat pts remaining,skill layout as follow:

Dtalon Maxed
Light Sen Maxed
Death Sen Maxed
Shock Web Maxed
1 in all shadow tab tree (10pts)
TS/DC/DT/DF/FB/CBS 1 pt each (6pts)

96skill pts spent

Think i did a boo-boo on TS

i'm open to ideas where else shd i slot the 5 Spts to lvl90?

Attributes as follow:
Str 120
Dex 120 (block rate 51% with headhunters)
Vit 230
En Base

I expect a drop in skills and attri once i dump my temp Atorch as i plan to run ubers.

[SeCKSEgai]

You're lack of venom will make a significant difference on the non poison immunes. With a huge focus on traps, you may find yourself lacking in the kicker department - however, they will add additional damage, assuming you can continue to lay them out when they expire. Since most of the light immunes wouldn't break even if you're merc could survive long in uberland, it will be limited in use.

[skyjuice]

Good tip. What i thought exactly.

Placing the next 5 pts in venom (or the use of 3 shadowskillers) will place it to lvl20 easy.

Anything else that is sorely lacking?

[SeCKSEgai]

hmm - don't bother swapping the gores for goblin toe. If I had known you were planning on doing ubers I could have given a number of reasons in that last thread to explain why.
If you need me to list a few I'll do so later.

As far as points, the most important skill is dtalon. You've got that maxed, so next priority I would have set was venom - I myself didn't and wish I had. After that, I would recommend getting fade to a decent level - all depending on whether or not you plan on using a last wish as your end game weapon (since its 11 fade will override your own). If not, I would focus on fade next, as it's additional resists (diminishing returns of course), reduced curse duration (my favorite), and the hidden physical damage reduction.

After that, the next one to put heavy investment would be the sm - I'd want sm to be at least lvl 17 for all gear, if not a little bit higher.

[skyjuice]

If things go according to plan (as these things do..heh) i'll be using stormlash for ubers.

I'll still be using goblintoes.

It will take alot to not use BOS...i'm too used to flying all over the place. I already have 1 pt in fade, as do SM.

My pts available to me are tight.

[SeCKSEgai]

2 main reasons not to use goblin toes

1. Less damage - not myrmidon greaves - not getting ow either - the cb doesn't make up for that.
2. 30% frw, lower req, and higher defense - upped gores.

You don't have to believe me that its not worth switching - even with 50+ runs under my belt - you'll find out soon enough. I do end up gear swapping in uberland - but its a difference between stacking resists or going for 100%+cb and pure damage. Then again, i'm at 77%cb at my lowest, but I did run at 50% for some time.

[skyjuice]

2 main reasons not to use goblin toes

1. Less damage - not myrmidon greaves - not getting ow either - the cb doesn't make up for that.
2. 30% frw, lower req, and higher defense - upped gores.

Appreciate for driving home those points.

FRW isn't an issue when i have BOS on. Do people actually use Fade in ubertrist instead? Because if i take BOS off my sin aura quick skill, i will need to check which gear to swop in IAS. Can't remember how much IAS is needed for optimal kick speed.

But more importantly, the CB. Storm will give me 33%. Either boots will give me 50 at least. Adding Guillaume (35) will yield a total of 85 at least.

Particularly the text in bold, need a guru to crunch out some number statistics for comparison? I'll like to find out what goes on behind the scenes.

[SeCKSEgai]

Appreciate for driving home those points.

FRW isn't an issue when i have BOS on. Do people actually use Fade in ubertrist instead? Because if i take BOS off my sin aura quick skill, i will need to check which gear to swop in IAS. Can't remember how much IAS is needed for optimal kick speed.

But more importantly, the CB. Storm will give me 33%. Either boots will give me 50 at least. Adding Guillaume (35) will yield a total of 85 at least.

Particularly the text in bold, need a guru to crunch out some number statistics for comparison? I'll like to find out what goes on behind the scenes.

BOS is fine for some areas - but not uber trist. It's one of your main tools to stacking resists when up against Meph's conviction aura. Only way to make up for a decent fade would be res charms - but you'll want to use as few as possible and you'd lack the reduced curse duration or hidden pdr.

I've been running below the "optimal" kick speeds and have been successful - but my base weapon speed has always been -30 or better. So I wouldn't be too worried if you're missing breakpoints. I've never done trist with less than 50% cb and wouldn't recommend it as you want to minimize your time against an uber, as well as it being a key skill.

I myself use a kira/coh swap until meph is down - normally I can pull him first, but if I end up working another, it's not a problem. The only reason I bother switching gear at all is for efficiency. If I end up having to kill Meph last, not having switched just means I kill the other 2 maybe a little slower than I would with 100+cb and a little more str. In my kira/coh, I drop down to 77%. In actual practice it usually just means the difference between a few more kicks - so your setup should be just fine.

[Master Zap]

2 main reasons not to use goblin toes

1. Less damage - not myrmidon greaves - not getting ow either - the cb doesn't make up for that.
2. 30% frw, lower req, and higher defense - upped gores.

You don't have to believe me that its not worth switching - even with 50+ runs under my belt - you'll find out soon enough. I do end up gear swapping in uberland - but its a difference between stacking resists or going for 100%+cb and pure damage. Then again, i'm at 77%cb at my lowest, but I did run at 50% for some time.

1) With respect to damage based on boot class. As you can see the difference in gross damage is pretty small. (One also gets style points for using double up'd gobs. Gores are so overused.)

Double up'd gobs : Mirrored Boots 50 to 145
.
up'd Gores : Myrmidon Greaves 83 to 149

Most of the time this char isnt running ubers. Because of this the added cb on gob's kills quicker. Using the suggested optimal rift items, there is little room to add cb to your setup. This is what makes gob's really shine.


Deadly strike is moot on kick. The cb is 10%less on gores and OW is more then covered by dracs alone (or fleshripper). Other then the slight damage difference, I see no compelling reason to use gores on a rift sin.

Dont forget your kicking 6 times in one second. Ow lasts 8 seconds in duration. This means that the ow% on gores is entirely redundant. Because your hitting the enemy so many times, the cb indeed more then offsets ow or the slight boot damage difference. I've tried them both extensively.

If your using the rift sin for general questing, the killing speed from the extra cb will be greater then that of the gore user. My sin had 30% cb in rift general play mode. (Gobs+ crafted cb gloves with duel leach and +1martial)

frw is irrelevant pvm. Your a bos using sin with dflight


ymmv

[SeCKSEgai]

1) With respect to damage based on boot class. As you can see the difference in gross damage is pretty small. (One also gets style points for using double up'd gobs. Gores are so overused.)

Double up'd gobs : Mirrored Boots 50 to 145
.
up'd Gores : Myrmidon Greaves 83 to 149

Most of the time this char isnt running ubers. Because of this the added cb on gob's kills quicker. Using the suggested optimal rift items, there is little room to add cb to your setup. This is what makes gob's really shine.

Deadly strike is moot on kick. The cb is 10%less on gores and OW is more then covered by dracs alone (or fleshripper). Other then the slight damage difference, I see no compelling reason to use gores on a rift sin.

Dont forget your kicking 6 times in one second. Ow lasts 8 seconds in duration. This means that the ow% on gores is entirely redundant. Because your hitting the enemy so many times, the cb indeed more then offsets ow or the slight boot damage difference. I've tried them both extensively.

If your using the rift sin for general questing, the killing speed from the extra cb will be greater then that of the gore user. My sin had 30% cb in rift general play mode. (Gobs+ crafted cb gloves with duel leach and +1martial)

frw is irrelevant pvm. Your a bos using sin with dflight


ymmv

You need to consider multipliers vs cb. CB is mainly effective for large life targets like bosses. Diminishing returns kick in real quick for everything else, even if cb casts, since you should be doing enough damage anyway to make quick work of minions.

As a monster's life decreases CB loses its effectiveness. Pure damage from boots can thus often add up to be more effective over time. Being that boot damage is multiplied first in the damage formula, then again by the number of kicks that land - it can make up for the damage that would have been done by cb.

High CB means you go will take big chunks out quickly - but once those chunks are gone - that's when pure damage takes hold as the deciding factor. This effect is seen most easily during ubers, where its not the big chunks of life that take time - it's the time it takes to finish off that sliver that really makes the difference. I've run at 50%, 75%+, and over 100% - while the differences are noticeable at every interval, it typically means the difference in seconds against ubers. Against minions, it basically makes no difference.

Of course, uberland is a bit extreme, as general pvm is far tamer. You don't have the high regeneration rates or 650k plus life to tango with. You don't need to worry about getting hit for 400+ damage. More likely you're fighting minions with 1-2k life - in which your kick will do just about as much as if not more than the cb itself (depending on phys res). The additional 10% chance of landing a crushing blow means nothing if the damage would be dealt regardless.

Unless you're at the fastest breakpoint, you're still going slightly over a second each time you attack if you're kicking 6 times. 7/3/3/3/3/3 = 22 25= 1 second as the game runs 25 fps. Anything less than that and you'll be a bit slower, though not terribly.

Ctc Ow is still Ctc. With the quick rate of attacks, it usually won't take long - but even with two sources of lifetap there are times where it won't cast for a long duration. It's a matter of probability. OW is more -regen support than anything else, and its not required, but more is always helpful, especially if the chance added is high like on a fleshripper. Until you hit over 100% its still helpful - but as it has reduced effectiveness against the targets you need it most on, it's not the highest priority.

When lifetap is in the equation - and it really should be - life leech is insignificant - especially since lifetap will allow large amounts of life to be regained where regular life leech is far more limited. Mana leech is convenient but not required if you don't mind chugging a few blue pots or run an insight merc.

If you're looking for cb - easy source is Guillaume's - while lacking the plus 2 all skills - you shouldn't be dependent on those too much as a melee class. As for the cold damage - it's negligible for a non-sorc class. You don't have cold mastery dropping monster resistances and even a perfect 15% means little against resistance- especially when the damage isn't extremely high to begin with. Socketing cold facets won't replace cold mastery. If you run an infinity merc, you'll be dropping res just like a cold mastery - but on the immunes you're merely decreasing defense as you'll only break a selected few.

Running in BoS loses the benefits of fade - while you can use charms to cover resistance holes the hidden pdr and more importantly reduced curse duration are far more useful to a melee build.