WW Ghost Assassin Guide V2.0

[AngryAiko]

I'm looking to make a chaos claw and from what I understand a greater talon is a good choice for its low requirements and fast speed.

The question I'm curious to is since barbs are such a problem for us would a skill like Cobra Strike be useful for its huge leech? What finisher would you want to use with it if so, Dragonflight / Dragonclaw?

Should I attempt to find a different type of claw with better mods than +2 Cobra Strike and +2 Dragon Flight or would this be a viable tactic against barbs and therefore worth making chaos in this?

[wizAdept]

I'm looking to make a chaos claw and from what I understand a greater talon is a good choice for its low requirements and fast speed.

The question I'm curious to is since barbs are such a problem for us would a skill like Cobra Strike be useful for its huge leech? What finisher would you want to use with it if so, Dragonflight / Dragonclaw?

Should I attempt to find a different type of claw with better mods than +2 Cobra Strike and +2 Dragon Flight or would this be a viable tactic against barbs and therefore worth making chaos in this?

oh boy.. never played a wwsin in pvp?

cobra strike is not pvp viable at all, leech is not viable in pvp and you do not leech off players, if you are thinking lifetap that is different. furthermore chargeups are not very viable in pvp, because it is not viable to chargeup on an opponent and release with a finisher without getting raped in the process.

gt are also somewhat outdated as wwsin claw choices, if you are building on a low budget and want to save on requirements sure you can get by with gt chaos, however using gt reduces your damage to mostly venom/ow and hardly any physical, which isn't very good considering how much ed% chaos has on it and how well physical damage helps on top of venom/ow damage.

find better claws.
if you want higher damage claws and dont mind wsm bugging (this is kinda confusing if you are new to wwsins, check the guide in this thread it is all explained there) suwayyah chaos with runic or feral fools claw is your best bet.
if you dont want to bother with wsm bugging and want standard equipping go with runic/runic or runic/feral.
if you want to know staffmods to look for, +3 venom is the priority. +1flight or +1ls are also good staffmods to save on some skill points, +weaponblock and +fade are also nice, but look for +venom as the priority.

[lzxkf]

1 small quick question... wsm is use to break ww speed or break laying trap speed?

[lzxkf]

my ww sin i low.. what should i use for charm?
i using chaos scissor suwayyah.... fury runic talon.. 4xshadow skiller gc torch anni. should i go more shadow skiller/ or max/ar charm?

[wizAdept]

1 small quick question... wsm is use to break ww speed or break laying trap speed?

used to get the max trap speed bp with less ias.

almost all claws reach max ww bp so its not an issue. unless you are using a slow base speed rare claw with no ias on it you can assume you have ww bp.

ww bp is also base on individual claw speed not combined wsm so wsm bugging does not do anything for it, each claw needs to hit ww bp independently. (as mentioned though, it doesnt really come up)
for trap speed, the combined wsm matters for the ias bp, so using wsm bug helps.

my ww sin i low.. what should i use for charm?
i using chaos scissor suwayyah.... fury runic talon.. 4xshadow skiller gc torch anni. should i go more shadow skiller/ or max/ar charm?

either would work. hows the rest of your setup look? highlords? gores? any sources of ed% on helm?
fury isnt really the hardest hitting claw when compared with a rare fools/ed% claw, but it'll do the job. your claw types work well for wsm bugging so you should be using it and will have the bp np, overshooting the ias bp by quite a bit actually.
Either shadow gcs or 32020s will work, personally I like 320s more, but I like it more with a fools claw as well. If you have tight whirls physical damage will probably serve you better, but more shadow disc gcs isnt bad either, boosts a bunch of passives, possibly higher block%, good for draining. It's really up to you, this type of thing is based on preference, some wwsins use 2x gcs with rest 320s, some use 4-5x gcs, some use 9x gcs.

[monSin]

First of all I would like to congratulate you on the best guides I've seen whilst playing diablo2, and thats not a short time. So I'm here to discuss some minor things about the ghost arsenal if you manage to respond.

First off I see you use fury. Don't you feel that hitting paladins (hammers) if not some fools is extremely weak (you can kill them, but it takes ages). Same goes with barbarians (which you can't kill with basic setup). I don't know if you use angelics and sacrifice tele mobility (fcr ring for angelic) for any chance of hitting them. Secondly, is a normal Fools GT/RT (logically assuming you change claws for these duels) with 2 soc(UmUm) 20ias enough for such a duel, will it lack some physical damage (such claws with 200+ed are nearly impossible to find, I'm still trying ). I know I don't need any skills on the claws if high level (skills into something is just not needed-except in claw mastery which can't spawn I think) but rarely who on europe got claws like this one.
And also, can you tell me your base stats and how you manage to switch around with it (for example if wear bramble, whats your setup, cause you lose a lot of str right there)

Now, to mention the charms, I was wondering are these max charms needed. Each charm 3 max gives 3* (1 + StatBonus(around 2-2.1+) + (187~200) / 100)) = 3*5= 15 max damage. Multiplier is not so big, and I was wondering if these charms really change the outcome of the damage. Considering for example you have 16 SCs*3=48max=> (*5) 240max damage = 40pvp = 20including 50%dr, which improves an average hit by 10 I guess...is it better then pure AR/life charms (more ar, more hit) ?

What shield you use on cta switch ?
I thought I would have more questions, but I guess your guide is simply clear enough. It comes down to boots and claws and charms. If you respond I might even remember some more questions ( careful )

Thanks in advance for replying,
monstar

[Sass]

I think I can still get most of these.

First off I see you use fury. Don't you feel that hitting paladins (hammers) if not some fools is extremely weak (you can kill them, but it takes ages). Same goes with barbarians (which you can't kill with basic setup).

This guide is designed to be "budget friendly". Fury is easier as a starting claw if you can't afford a Fools.

However, he does suggest a fools to replace a fury for, like you said, paladins and barbs. His example of a sample Venom ghost runs a fools as a main rather than fury. Not sure why the phys says fury, though if your ED% on it is high enough, it's definitely usable.

Secondly, is a normal Fools GT/RT (logically assuming you change claws for these duels) with 2 soc(UmUm) 20ias enough for such a duel, will it lack some physical damage (such claws with 200+ed are nearly impossible to find, I'm still trying ).

Yes, but only if you're WSM bugging with a Suwayyah. That'll require 19% IAS on your runic / Greater, so the natural 20 covers it. Being a GT/RT, it automatically hits the 4 frame WW as well.

And yes, unless you get the high ED ones, it's often best to have a little swap to venom with shadow GC swaps and drain them.

I don't know if you use angelics and sacrifice tele mobility (fcr ring for angelic) for any chance of hitting them.

Unless specified with that person to go non enigma, he wouldn't, and he isn't the person to recommend it either. Angelics adds AR by the truck loads, but is a very inefficient way of doing so.

With a sample, average build, Fury should hit ~5K AR or so as an effective min. With fools, this can jump to 10+ as a min. The 5K will hit basically any caster (except Hdins), and the fools can hit high defenses (10K is a bit low, but will hit barbs, smiters more easily, but will naturally be hard against Hdins).

Vs all chars, you want the mobility, so enigma is a must. Fools is, and should always be, the first option when considering for more AR. After that, charms. Rings and amulets shouldn't be changing (he often builds them in and only GM duels anyway).

I know I don't need any skills on the claws if high level (skills into something is just not needed-except in claw mastery which can't spawn I think) but rarely who on europe got claws like this one.

I think the cube method to make something low quality affected the claws that can spawn mods and make them so low, they are able to spawn the low tier skills. This is very rare though.

And also, can you tell me your base stats and how you manage to switch around with it (for example if wear bramble, whats your setup, cause you lose a lot of str right there)

Aside from claw and charms, he doesn't swap much, if any. However, he usually goes for the + stat if you intend to swap like that. Other than claws, nothing will be more than 120. Dancers can get that high, but aren't too needed unless kicking too. Res boots are often better.

ow, to mention the charms, I was wondering are these max charms needed. Each charm 3 max gives 3* (1 + StatBonus(around 2-2.1+) + (187~200) / 100)) = 3*5= 15 max damage. Multiplier is not so big, and I was wondering if these charms really change the outcome of the damage. Considering for example you have 16 SCs*3=48max=> (*5) 240max damage = 40pvp = 20including 50%dr, which improves an average hit by 10 I guess...is it better then pure AR/life charms (more ar, more hit) ?

I've never number crunched them, but have only seen their effects. Some times I go half max/ar/life SCs and can already tell the increase. So, I'm not going to be reliable when it comes to how much it adds, just that you can tell on something like an ES sorc when her es pops quickly.

What shield you use on cta switch ?

He uses a "Spirit" Monarch.

[monSin]

I didn't want that info on claws but thanks, didn't understand it tho but I'm very tired so I'll leave it for another time. Spirit is 146 Str minimally (eth) btw...So it's a discussion where is it useful investment or not for 1 extra skill bo

[Sass]

Typically, the ring/circ/amy can cover the other 20-30 str.

[TienJe]

First of all I would like to congratulate you on the best guides I've seen whilst playing diablo2, and thats not a short time. So I'm here to discuss some minor things about the ghost arsenal if you manage to respond.

First off I see you use fury. Don't you feel that hitting paladins (hammers) if not some fools is extremely weak (you can kill them, but it takes ages). Same goes with barbarians (which you can't kill with basic setup). I don't know if you use angelics and sacrifice tele mobility (fcr ring for angelic) for any chance of hitting them.

i think implicit in that statement is the assumption that adding AR increases DPS significantly, which i don't think is true. the way the % hit equation is set up, a 50% increase in AR will not increase DPS by 50%. fools on a physical ghost only increases total AR by about 50%, and against high def targets, % hit (and thus physical DPS) will move up only 15-20%. higher AR will allow OW to trigger more often however, so i believe the total DPS will be higher against high def/block characters like paladins (which is why i swap to a fools claw on my own ghost vs paladins), but the damage difference is pretty negligible.

vs barbs, i can usually outpower decently equipped bvcs with a dual eth-bug claw setup, but if they slap on a shield or start to stack dr/def, i have a very tough time... usually the bow widowmaker strategy works better, but it's still extremely tough.

Secondly, is a normal Fools GT/RT (logically assuming you change claws for these duels) with 2 soc(UmUm) 20ias enough for such a duel, will it lack some physical damage (such claws with 200+ed are nearly impossible to find, I'm still trying ). I know I don't need any skills on the claws if high level (skills into something is just not needed-except in claw mastery which can't spawn I think) but rarely who on europe got claws like this one.

that is indeed the trade-off you make when you swap a fury for a fools. switching physical damage for higher hit % isn't necessarily a bad thing; it just changes the composition of the damage you deal over time. with a fools instead of a fury, you'll be doing more OW and venom damage, which i think is the more effective way to duel high def/block chars.

when you're talking about a 9 shadow gc ghost however, the fools is pretty essentially because the ghost's base AR is extremely low and because the majority of the ghost's damage is from venom anyway.

And also, can you tell me your base stats and how you manage to switch around with it (for example if wear bramble, whats your setup, cause you lose a lot of str right there)

i don't remember what the stats were, but i used a andy's helm + ebugged bartucs when i wanted to buff with bramble or ww with a fort. these setups were pretty useless though, so i wouldnt add any stats to use those armors. enigma is by far the superior armor.

Now, to mention the charms, I was wondering are these max charms needed. Each charm 3 max gives 3* (1 + StatBonus(around 2-2.1+) + (187~200) / 100)) = 3*5= 15 max damage. Multiplier is not so big, and I was wondering if these charms really change the outcome of the damage. Considering for example you have 16 SCs*3=48max=> (*5) 240max damage = 40pvp = 20including 50%dr, which improves an average hit by 10 I guess...is it better then pure AR/life charms (more ar, more hit) ?

the physical damage from the charms gets multiplied by DS and CS as well (and gets applied to hits from both claws), so the damage is pretty significant when you add it up over time, even if the nominal value may seem negligible on a per hit basis. if you calculate the total DPS for physical, venom, and OW damage, you'll see that the charms do in fact affect the damage quite a bit.

that being said, for a physical ghost, 3/20/20's are usually better than 36/20 for the reason explained in the first paragraph.. that increasing AR doesn't increase total DPS by as much as you would imagine. with 40 36/20's, you'll get a few thousand more AR than with 3/20/20's, but you'll lose out on 60 average physical damage. calculate the total DPS taking into account % chance to hit and i'm pretty sure that you'll find 3/20/20's to deal more damage.

What shield you use on cta switch ?
I thought I would have more questions, but I guess your guide is simply clear enough. It comes down to boots and claws and charms. If you respond I might even remember some more questions ( careful )

Thanks in advance for replying,
monstar

i use a sigons shield (for style points) on one ghost, and eth spirit on the other. you can get enough +str from your gear to allow both without stat investments.