thanks for the sticky ollie :wink3:Originally Posted by HappyAssassin
Looks like a great guide. Thank you for sharing it.
Good job on that guide. Also helpful videos for beginners and useful tactical advice.
ah i just met you yesterday in a game with happy. my sin's name is FyreOrder and i'm definately looking forward to dueling your ghost sometime. great ghost guide and you just inspired me to continue writing my ww/wof guide since it is a very similar build to yours.
Seems like a very nice, high quality guide. GG for putting up the vids too.
A word about kicks though. DF can be nice, because there's no need to aim it almost at all. I've found that it actually works vs. very slippery opponents, which I couldn't namelock much. Just tele near the target according to the map and hold down DF in the general area.
DT also has it's uses. It's very hard to do perfect tele-tri-whirls vs. good casters, at least for me, and this is where DT comes in handy. It also frees up some concentration to be used for better trap stunlocking. Of course for someone with near-perfect namelock and triwhirl skills kicks are almost useless, but there are a few situations where DT actually "beats" WW even if WW was used perfectly. Vs. a necro that hides inside bonewalls for example. Most of the WW hits land on the bonewalls, making the number of hits done to the opponent to be lower than with using DT, which only hits a single target. DT also works if the opponent is crowded by minions. Sure, the minions can be knocked away with a couple of MB casts, but that takes time, increasing the risk for the opponent getting away, whereas with DT the opponent can be attacked as soon as he/she is namelocked, no matter how many minions there are. Just MB the whole group once (and lay a few traps to stunlock the opponent better of course) to ensure the minions aren't interrupting with their attacks.
I don't mean to say that not investing in kicks is bad, I just want to share my view on kicks, that they can be useful at times, even for someone with very good WW skills (I'm not saying that I'm very good with WW). ...Having said that, I admit that WW is better for probably more than 95% of the time if used properly, but for the remaining few occasions DF and DT can be nice skills to have in.
Downside with making the ghost lean a bit towards kicks, as in hybridizing it to a ghost/kicker, is that it probably means less life, which means less hits can be tanked, which means that opponents like Smiters or V/T:s can be slightly harder than they would be with a "pure ghost". (Shadow Dancers/upped Gores -> stat points "wasted" in Str, and a few skill points "wasted" in DT (3 kick DT is good).)
i have to whole heartedly disagree with you about df. i really see it more as a crutch skill than a utility skill. it takes 24 frames and the short range make it really useless for me (maybe because i'm pretty proficient at namelocking; the videos don't do the mb nl -> tele combo justice imo) if you are able to nl, using mb to nl is much better than trying to use df to catch your target, since you want to have your opponent in a swirly before you attack, always. i guess its a matter of style, but for me, i'm very glad i didn't place any points in it.
as for the dragon talon, i agree with you. i personally just use normal attack as my short range melee skill, since i feel that the spacing of the attacks is better than dragon claw and the hits do more damage than talon. i actually talk about the vs necro strategy that you mention in the necro section. its definitely a good strategy to have in your arsenal.
This is a very well-written guide. Well done
I have a few questions, speaking as a relative beginner to PvP. Apologies for the slight OT, as I really like the idea of building a WWsin, but can't afford several key components of this build - most importantly, I won't ever have access to Enigma. I'm guessing that means that I'm stuck with a pure WW-er, as opposed to this exact build.
Without Teleport, are 9-frame traps a greater or lesser priority? Will more stunning (and so trapping) be necessary due to the slowness of DF?
Also, if one has to do without Enigma, what armours make a good replacement? I'm figuring Nat's, socketed with Poison Facets.
Is Malice discounted simply because it's worse than Fury? If Fury didn't exist/were too expensive, would Malice be usable against low-def opponents?
shouldn't you be able to afford an enigma if you have a few poison facets? and on that note, if you cant afford an enigma, then you won't be able to afford the circlet or the rings, or claws, am i correct?This is a very well-written guide. Well done
I have a few questions, speaking as a relative beginner to PvP. Apologies for the slight OT, as I really like the idea of building a WWsin, but can't afford several key components of this build - most importantly, I won't ever have access to Enigma. I'm guessing that means that I'm stuck with a pure WW-er, as opposed to this exact build.
Without Teleport, are 9-frame traps a greater or lesser priority? Will more stunning (and so trapping) be necessary due to the slowness of DF?
Also, if one has to do without Enigma, what armours make a good replacement? I'm figuring Nat's, socketed with Poison Facets.
Is Malice discounted simply because it's worse than Fury? If Fury didn't exist/were too expensive, would Malice be usable against low-def opponents?
you leave me in quite a tough spot, since the premise of the entire build is to teleport and act partly like a trapper.
but to answer your questions, having the 9 frame bp would be less important when you aren't teleporting. when you're landlocked you'll be playing defensive, so you will have more time to set up your traps. i wouldn't go anything over 10/11 frame traps though.
as for the armor, i would recommend bramble or fort for a replacement for your armor, but seeing as you can't afford enigma, i'd probably go along with your nat's suggestion.
malice i guess is fine if you can't use a fury. make sure you use a fast claw though, since malice has 0 IAS; you need faster than -14 WSM to hit 4 frame traps.
there's no need to apologize. i love answering questions. it helps me convince myself that knowing all this stuff about d2 is useful. :wink3:
How do you feel about Circlet v Valk?
I personally see Valk as the better choice because of Ring/Amulet flexibility. The 65 Fcr break is reached with just the belt and gloves (which never change) and this helm, leaving rings open. I think that the fact that this allows for convenient Angelic/Absorb (since let's be honest, BM does happen) without requiring additional changes in gear is a pretty good deal overall.
Also, do you think building in a Bramble switch is a good idea? Against opponents like BvCs, some Zeal/Smite, or Hammerdins where the ability to teleport isn't really necessary it seems like it's worth losing a few vitality points to build in.
I know you listed this stuff in optional equips, just wondering what your personal preference is.
PS: Nice ebug claw. @@
i still think that circlet is better than valk, when you consider all the secondary mods that your circlet can come with. you can get tons of +mana, +life, +stats, +res, and not to mention the extra skill points.
if you use shadow gcs and have low base AR, i think a fools of quick would be a better choice than a set of angelics, and if you are using a physical damage build, you'll have enough AR without angelics or the fools, and when you do need the angelics vs babas and smiters etc, you'll have the freedom anyway because the fcr won't be a problem anyway.
i think on the whole, a circlet build will give you a better overall setup, but the valk will give you that extra bit of freedom against elemental characters if you use it. i've personally never needed to resist sorcs, so i've stuck with the circlet build. it's a matter of preference i guess. going valk or circlet is not going to make or break your sin, and you probably won't notice the difference. but instead of always using a valk because it gives you more freedom, i'd rather build for a circlet setup, and then switch to a valk for those cases when you need the added flexibility.
as for the bramble, i actually don't need to add any str to use it. when i use bramble i actually equip an andy's helm and an ebug fal'd bartucs, which gives me enough str to use bramble. i almost never use this setup though; i'd rather slap on a widowmaker than go full out whirl.
p.s. then there's also the school of using CoA as your helm. you can hit your 65 fcr bp if you use a fcr ring and a 15 fcr ammy, and then benefit from the extra DR and fhr and 2 sockets in the coa. the 15 extra dr helps save you 15 points into fade, the 2 sockets give you freedom for +max res or damage etc, and the fhr saves you fhr gcs. it's definitely a good option for ghosts with a poison emphasis, but not as much for the more physical builds.
Last edited by TienJe; 05-07-2007 at 09:31.
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