How does enhanced damage on jewels work?

[thePaingiver]

Just today i found a 40 ench. damage 15 increased attack jewel on Hell Andariel. And wondering how these jewels work. I mean if i have a weapon 200 ench. damage and i insert this jewel to my helm will it be the same with 240 ench. version of same weapon?

[Orphan]

If you put the ED% jewel into your helm, it would simply be treated as off-weapon item-based ED% (similiar to that found on fortitude). If you put that in your weapon though, it would be treated as on-weapon ED%, and would result in the 240% total in your example.

Off-weapon ED% though increase the total weapon damage. So basically if your weapon had 200% ED, and you put the 40% ED jewel in your helm, then first your weapon damage would be calculated by it's base damage * 3 (which is 200%), and then it would be further multipled by 1.4 (which is 40%).

[Thyiad]

Would that make a big difference, Orphan? The example you gave just confusesd me a bit.

[krischan]

Yes, there is a difference. Orphan just forgot to mention that the off-weapon %ed in his example is assumed to be 0% without the jewel :azn:.

Jewel in 200%ed weapon: Damage = (1+240/100)*1 = 3.4 = 340%
Jewel in armor, with 200%ed weapon: Damage = (1+200/100)*(1+40/100) = 4.2 = 420%

If you have a choice and weapon %ed is lower than off-weapon %ed (which is nearly always the case, as bonuses from skills, stats, auras etc. are off-weapon %ed), put the jewel into the weapon, else into the armor/shield/helm.

For a precise calculation, you have to consider +min/maxdmg bonuses, by finding out how much %ed would produce the same bonus on average weapon damage and add that amount of pseudo-%ed to on-weapon %ed.

[Orphan]

To add on to krischan's example, here's a simple case scenario:

Case 1 - 40% ED jewel added off-weapon
Base Weapon = Berserker Axe (24-71 damage)
200% ED on the weapon = 72-213 damage (increase base weapon damage by 200%)
40% ED off the weapon = 98-298 damage (increase total weapon damage by 40%)


Case 2 - 40% ED jewel added on-weapon
Base Weapon = Berserker Axe (24-71 damage)
240% ED on weapon = 81-241 damage (increase base weapon damage by 240%)

This assumes no other sources of ED%. Essentially, off-weapon ED% multiplies your total weapon damage. If you already have alot of ED% as it is (such as from skills, fort, etc) then it's generally better to go for straight +min or +max damage, as those would probably result in more damage, but it depends on the setup though.

[thePaingiver]

So we all have +ed from skills and you suggest putting +min +max damage jewels on items.And it is better to put jewels in non-weapon cause it raises damage more.
Do you prefer Eth rune on weapon?Is it worth?

[Orphan]

So we all have +ed from skills and you suggest putting +min +max damage jewels on items.And it is better to put jewels in non-weapon cause it raises damage more.

Ultimately, it would come down to what your other gear setup is, and how much off-weapon ED% you have (including skill ED%). If you have alot of ED% already (such as 800+) then +min and +max damage jewels would probably be better than ED%, otherwise put the ED% jewel in the weapon (if possible).

Another factor is whether or not the base min/max of the weapon is high to begin with. For example, if the base min damage is relatively low (such as the berserker axe) then +min damage jewels would offer a higher minimum damage increase than ED% jewels. If it's high (such as the ogre maul) then ED% would better serve.

The only real way to see which would provide more damage would be to calculate it manually by factoring in all your sources of ED%, str/dex, etc and seeing which scenario would come out on top.

Do you prefer Eth rune on weapon?Is it worth

Unless I really had a low chance to hit, I'd probably almost always choose to socket the weapon with something other than an eth rune. That's just a personal opinion though, since most of my builds generally factor in attack rating in their other items anyway.

[helvete]

Weapons with Eth runes are no longer bugged as of 1.10 IIRC. Generally speaking, if you have an amazon with windforce, fortitude, pride/might merc using strafe, then (not counting on/off weapon IAS issues) you are most likely better off putting it in the windforce, since all the skill/off weapon ED is added together, but putting it in the bow will add to the weapon damage.

I will try to make an example with very simplified numbers:

Base weapon damage: 100-200 (no such weapon exists)
ED on Weapon: 100%
One socket available on weapon
Fortitude armor (300%)
Helm has no ED, or min/max damage, and has an open socket
No other equipment has +min/max damage or ED
Auras from merc grant 400%ED
Str/dex bonuses grant 200%ED

Now the game calculates Weapon damage first, which will be 200-400 in this case.

Then all off weapon ED is added together, which in this simplified example is 900%ED.

This gives a total damage of 2000-4000.

Now, add the 40%ED in the weapon. This results in a new weapon damage of 240-480 which with our 900% offweapon ED will give 2400-4800 total.

Then, we try adding the jewel to the helm instead. This gives us weapon damage of 200-400 as before, but 940% offweapon ED and a grand total of 2080-4160 damage.

However, it never is this simple. There is also a bug with adding %ED to a non weapon with +min and/or +max damage which makes the %ED not work right.

EDIT: Orphan posted while I wrote this, but the essence should be much the same.

Adding +max jewels to the weapon is better if the weapon base damage is so low that %ED jewels would add less damage. Adding +max jewels to non-weapons will make sense if there already is a lot of off-weapon %ED, and the weapon itself has fairly low damage.

[Ouallada]

Just a note, do remember that ed/max jewels that are not in the weapon are bugged, so while adding max/min damage is good when you have a lot of ed, min/max jewels work perfect only in weapons. Charms are another good way to get min/max damage.

[helvete]

The bug with +min/max damage on non weapons is as follows.

Adding a +max or +min jewel to armor/helm/shield will work as intended.
Adding %ED jewels to armor/helm/shield works as intended
Armor/helm/shield which already has +max damage will make any %ED jewel only work as "enhanced MINIMUM damage"
Armor/helm/shield which already has +min damage will make any %ED jewel only work as "enhanced MAXIMUM damage"
Armor/helm/shield which already has +min AND +max damage will make any %ED jewel not work at all.

The same is true if the +min/max damage is on the same jewel as the %ED

Few examples:
Adding a +1 min damage jewel, and then adding a 40%ED jewel to a helm will "break" the 40%ED with regards to min damage.
Adding a 40%ED jewel, and then adding a +1min dmg jewel will NOT break anything.
Adding a 40%ED/+15max jewel to a weapon will work perfectly
Adding a 40%ED/+15max jewel to a non-weapon will make the 40%ED only work as "40%enhanced minimum damage".

Hope this makes sense :shocked: