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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veilside View Post
    It's easier to go hybrid with a faith bow because you'll save on a lot of points that you'd normally put into penetrate if you're using wf or wws.
    Otherwise uhmmm, as said above, depends on what you want to do with your ama.
    The same argument is valid for WWS as you can go without points in crit strike.

    PvM:
    a) no budget strafer: WF
    b) budget strafer: WWS
    c) no budget hybrid: Faith GMB
    d) budget hybrid: WWS
    e) no budget MFer: CTA Matri (yes that is right and it sure wasn't included in this discussion)
    f) budget MFer: WWS

    PvP:
    I have absolutely no experience PvP.




  2. #42
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    me question here underneath

  3. #43
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinja View Post
    Like others have said, it all depends if you PvP or PvM, or both, and I'd say your build might have a lot to do with it. Here is a guide to how I build my amazon which is extremely powerful, effective, and the most fun out of everything and I've tried everything having built at least 20 different amazons since the beginning of D2. Now I haven't played D2 for a long time thanks to WoW so somethings might be off in this guide:

    I chose the Windforce for PvM mainly because I'm a strafe Zon and you only need 120 IAS to reach the cap of 12.5 attacks per seconds which is 2 FPA. So if you could already reach the max speed you want to be hitting with the hardest hitting bow in the game and that's the Windforce. Strafe is also better on a single target because it attacks so fast so maxing out guided arrow isn't needed for PvM.

    So with Strafe you get an extremely fast attacking ability for groups of mobs and something that is devistating vs. single targets/bosses. Strafe also hits harder than Multi. Now if I were just doing Cow runs like back in the day, I'd stick with a Multi set up but for Baal Runs and other areas of the game Strafe just out performs with this build.

    Having said that, you only need to invest 24 points in bows. That leaves 86 points for Passive and Magic skills. With that I'm able to max out Critical Strike, Penetrate, Valkery and Decoy last. So basically I max out everything in this order.

    20 Critical Strike
    20 Strafe
    20 Penetrate
    20 Valkery
    20 Decoy
    1 in Pierce when you hit 30
    The rest in pre-req's

    Now considering my build ends up with +7 in skills, you end up with a critical strike of just under 75%. That means you're doing double the damage 3 out of every 4 shots pretty much which doesn't include a very high deadly strike chance and a decent chance of crushing blow which all combined is very nice. Even with 1 point in pierce with all the +skills you reach a chance to pierce of 65%. So basically piercing 2 out of every 3 shots which owns with strafe without investing many points into that ability.

    Now if you hit level 99, you end up with a Valkery who can tank pretty much anything in the game which is why I put the last 20 points into Decoy to increase my Valk's life. There really isn't anything else worth putting into for PvM. One could argue a few more points into Pierce but I like my perfect build being able to max out 5 great PvM abilities plus the % doesn't go up much more with pierce so I think it's a waste of skill points.

    As for my gear:

    Weapon: Windforce (Shael) - 40% IAS and 8% Mana Leech
    Helmet: Andariel's Visage (40/15 Jewel) - Has a total of 35% IAS and 10% Life Leech
    Armor: Fortitude
    Gloves: Laying of Hands - 20% IAS
    Belt: Nosferatu's Coil (6% Life Leech) - 10% IAS
    Boots: Gore Riders (Up'd)
    Rings: 250/20 Raven Frost x2
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath - 20% IAS

    I also have a Torch, Anni, and an inventory full of 100+ psc's. With this gear and charms, you only need to put 70 points into strength. That puts you at 90, the belt + torch + anni for me adds about 45 strength which puts me at 135 which is enough for the windforce. The strength added from the windforce and andariel visage will be enough to use a good Fortitude. If you don't care about wearing a really high defense Fortitude, you could save 15 points in strength and put them into dexterity.

    But that means you'll have to wait until level 83 to use the Windforce as you'll need the strength from Andariel's Visage to just equip it. Personally I went with a higher defense Fortitude and the ability to use the Windforce heading into Hell at level 73 as I'm one of those guys that doesn't like to get rushed and kill everything needed to advance. Think about it, there isn't much content in this game, why skip it or not work to get through it? So you could do 45 damage more when you're already doing tens of thousands of damage a second.

    I also chose to put 80 points into vitality moving it up to 100 base. This will land you over 700 health which is plenty in PvM if you know how to play an amazon. So that's 150 points on strength/vitality and the rest can go into Dexterity which should easily get over 400 and close to 450 by the time you hit level 99 if that's your goal. Some extremists don't put any points into Vitality which is fine, but I like that small cushion for when I'm being lazy or fighting Ubers.

    My total mana leech is 8% which is more than enough when you're doing this much damage and 16% life leech which is definitely more than enough. My resistances aren't horrible but they're not that great. My poison is good, my lightning is decent enough, but my cold and fire are just below 0. So overall not that bad but again, you're a class that owns from range so you should not be getting hit much. I'd suggest wearing full Mav's if you're doing Ubers and keep dying to their magic. I've done it with these resistances and it's tough but I have Mavs on hand in case it's needed.

    Getting back to the gear. Now I know alone you might question some of my choices but I primarily picked these specific items to get up to 120% IAS (I have 125% IAS) so I can reach the max of 2 FPA which is again 12.5 attacks per second with Strafe. That is a must for this build and everything else is a bonus and comes secondary. Let me break down each piece of gear I have:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Windforce: I already explained above but mainly because it's the hardest hitting bow in the game and I'm using a strafe build and can obtain the max speed needed so you'd be dumb to use anything but a windforce under these circumstances. Also with shael you get up to 40% IAS which is needed and this is my only form of mana leech which is more than enough. The Knockback is also very nice for PvM. The strength added by the Windforce actually came in handy to wear my Fortitude. The 5 Dexterity added is just like free AR and damage.

    Andariels Visage: 20% IAS, +2 Skills, and up to 30 strength added which is needed to wear a good fortitude armor and up'd Gore Riders. Make sure to socket it with a 40/15 as you'll need that extra 15% IAS to get up to 120% IAS. This also has great poison resistances.

    Fortitude Armor: 300% Enhanced Damage, adds a lot of life, up to 30 to all resistances and high defence. This is a great bonus to have considering you don't need IAS to come from your armor. This is the greatest amazon armor you can wear if you don't need the IAS.

    Laying of Hands: I think it's kind of obvious. 20% IAS which is needed and all I do is PvM and mainly fight demons and bosses (which are demons) where this adds 350% more damage to them. It's also a great counter for fire resistance considering you lose a lot wearing Andariel's Visage.

    Nosferatu's Coil. I needed the 10% IAS, up to 6% Life Leech, slows targets down by 10% which comes in handy in PvM stacked with the Windforces Knockback and the Merc's Decrepify. It also adds 15 strength. Now I look at that as adding 15 dexterity because the points I saved in strength leading up to what was needed to equip all my gear went into dexterity instead.

    Gore Riders: I'm just a fan of procs and considering I attack so fast with Strafe, the chance for the additional damage from crushing blow and deadly strike is happening very often.

    Highlord's Wrath: I needed the 20% IAS but the +1 to skills, deadly strike and lightning resistances are great bonuses.

    Raven Frostx2: Now I tried a BK ring but the +1 skills doesn't add much damage and I didn't need the life leech so I just doubled up on the best amazon rings in the game IMO. Considering I don't use a faith the attack rating was needed. The damage added from the 20 Dexterity and cold damage is also a great bonus.

    Also considering my cold resistances aren't that great, the cold absorb is a nice little bonus. Overall you can't go wrong wearing 2 of these rings. They both add a ton of great stats for an amazon. Lets not forget about not being able to be frozen.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Additional Info:

    Charms: This is kind of obvious. Everyone needs a torch and anni. I went with small poison charms as they work great for amazons. My goal now is replacing my 100+ psc's x25 with 451 psc's x25 to pretty much perfect my character but that's extremely expensive. I have a 750 MF Sorce who does over 5K Blizzard damage that I use to fund this Amazon.

    Merc: I went with a NM Act 2 Offensive Merc and I'll tell you why. The added damage from might is actually more than what Faith adds when it's on your merc. Now if you were using a Faith than the added damage would be higher but I think it's lower from a Merc because the damage added is lower for the party and you're considered the party when your merc is using the faith. Now it's been awhile since I tested this so don't bite my head off if my memory isn't that great! Either way, might is a great alternative to the faith.

    As for what else the faith adds, keep in mind I don't need the extra IAS as I'm already at the maximum cap for strafe plus I wouldn't want to rely on my Merc to reach the max FPA. I do lose out on the attack rating but I do remember when I tested it out my chance to hit goes up by like 3% which isn't a whole lot. My merc wears an 8/20 Gaze for obvious reasons. He also wears an Eth fortitude and an Eth Reaper's Toll.

    So again, considering might counters faith, I don't need the IAS at all and the AR isn't that important considering how much Dexterity I already have, I'd rather have a hard hitting Merc that removes physical immunities and lowers physical resistances by 50% and slows them down greatly with 1 out of every 3 swings.

    I'm already powerful enough that my merc doesn't really get to do that much damage, but if I'm trying to solo some hard packs with 8 players in the game and things don't die as fast, let me tell you, Decrepify seems like it's always up, and when it is, things die instantly with the amount of physical damage that I do.

    I chose to socket the Eth Reaper's Toll with an Amn over an Ohm. The 50% ED is nice, but doesn't add that much. My merc is more like a great 2nd tank for me who needs to stay alive to keep up Decrepify so I'd rather him leeching 30% life back considering he already hits hard enough with that set up. I also put a Cham in the 8/20 Vampire Gaze as I hate it when he was slowed constantly by cold attacks.

    I think I've written enough here. Just keep in mind this Bowazon Windforce/Strafe guide is strictly for PvM only.

    Noob question here , i know its almost 6 years later but what about instead of reaper toll you take Pride for your merc, since you can use Lacerator on switch with strafe for immunities for much more DMG increase from Concentration from Pride. and i also War travelers instead of Gore for the small dmg increase and 10+ vita and STR gives 20 more points in dex. same goes for cat's eye but i see why you would go Highlords. Lastly i really need to know if all the +skill from faith still dont make it better then Windforce, Windforce is WITHOUT A DOUBT more dmg in every way more dmg then faith with this build? i know this thread is dead and every1 who posted is a granny now but please, if somebody can give some feed back PLEASE DO!

    so sorry for double post
    Last edited by vitalien; 26-11-2012 at 23:21.

  4. #44
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    Ah, age old question!

    Personally, I find windforce+faith merc to be the best option overall. Faith just has too little damage for pvm. Windforce has nearly twice base damage of faith. Even more importantly it has manaleech and knockback inbuilt into the weapon itself and you don't need to get other items for that.

    Don't have a pride RW myself but I think reapers is probably a better option for the might merc. Yes, we have atma's for amp but that's nowhere as reliable.

    I agree with you on cat's eye and WTs. Maxed crit strike bowazons don't benefit much from deadly strike and extra few on cat's eye is a good plus.

  5. #45
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    but what about the +1 to skills on High lords? isnt that more dmg then 20 dex from cat eye? coz it increase DMG of strafe by 5% right? also since this build has no crushing blow only Gore's doesnt that make Gore's that much more needed since you wanna kill dia faster ETC. and then what about Lacerator instead of atma? you dont need atma since you can strafe, switch to lace, switch back right away and it procs the amplify dmg with much more chance. atleast thats what people tell me. lastly, why did he go for 120% AIS when 80% is the last breaking point for Strafe, please scream at me if i am wrong or did not read the post properly

    PS he build misses 2 things, type of armor for Forti . AND why did he put a shael in hes Windforce when he had 125% ( he said 120% was needed ) AIS anyway, he could have gone with a 40 ed 15 AIS jewel. which would be so much better
    Last edited by vitalien; 27-11-2012 at 16:44.

  6. #46
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    +1 skills would add 5% to strafe, but 25 dex from Cat's eye would add 25% dmg, so.. yeah. The deadly strike is a good boost though, even on amazons. Lacerator bug is stupid, causes monster flee half the time and requires you to give up cta or other switches. I suggest using atma's if you want the amp and don't bother with lacerator.

  7. #47
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    Just a note, if you actually have used Atma's it procs...a lot. You fire very quickly with strafe an it is pretty much constantly applied before it runs out, at least on somewhat tightly packed monsters.

  8. #48
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Just a note, if you actually have used Atma's it procs...a lot. You fire very quickly with strafe an it is pretty much constantly applied before it runs out, at least on somewhat tightly packed monsters.
    This is quite true. I mostly man an Ice Maiden Bowazon, but even I carry an Atma's around just for Cold/Physical Immunes (can't break every single one but almost all of them) and despite a seemingly low proc chance, when you're using Strafe it pops off a lot. And when it does...you really start to just rip things to shreds.

  9. #49
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    And as long as we are talking about this, if I had an unlimited budget, it would be Atma's in the amulet slot, Pride on a Might Merc, and I am not sure the bow matters at that point but probably a Windforce, I guess you could do a Faith.

    I do not use the Act 1 mercs, they are flaky beyond belief, while the A2 and A5 mercs get stuck on the slightest outcropping of rock, they do tend to do something. The range on Fanaticism isn't exactly huge.

  10. #50
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    Re: windforce vs faith

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphodbrx View Post
    +1 skills would add 5% to strafe, but 25 dex from Cat's eye would add 25% dmg, so.. yeah. The deadly strike is a good boost though, even on amazons. Lacerator bug is stupid, causes monster flee half the time and requires you to give up cta or other switches. I suggest using atma's if you want the amp and don't bother with lacerator.
    How can 25 dex add 25% damage? XD Edit: I'm such a noob. Dex is ED for zons.
    Last edited by Quingu; 21-12-2012 at 15:41.

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