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  1. #41
    IncGamers Member EliManning's Avatar
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    Frothing or not, you pretty much are a huge lunatic if you go around making up fantasy country names based on your pet theories about which ex-rulers might be there and then trying to pass it off as legitimate and serious debate on international affairs. Think about how you'd react if some Pakistani group were sitting around saying "OH MY GOD USA STANDS FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIBUSHFAMILYOWNSUSALL." It's pretty much the most douchebag thing you can possibly do as an international affairs analyst and it guarantees that nobody will take you seriously.

    Leave the cutesy name switcheroo gag on your blog and let's stick to non-lunacy. Think about how much more seriously he would have taken your argument had you not included the phrase "Talibanistan." He might have even taken a moment to address it.




  2. #42
    IncGamers Member Drosselmeier's Avatar
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    Did you link to an article where those guys called Pakistan Talibanistan?

    And if you should in the future, please refer to EliMannings post.




  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drosselmeier
    Did you link to an article where those guys called Pakistan Talibanistan?

    And if you should in the future, please refer to EliMannings post.
    Talibanistan. Funny. You should to Karachi or Lahore one of these days. More modern in some aspects than the States.




  4. #44
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drosselmeier
    Did you link to an article where those guys called Pakistan Talibanistan?

    And if you should in the future, please refer to EliMannings post.
    Uh, yeah, that's kind of the point (the article is a .PDF, maybe you don't have Adobe?). When the Center for Stragegic and International Studies coins the phrase, it isn't really a bunch of nutbags calling names. I think I even heard it on CBS a day or two ago...

    Bear in mind that at issue is the border region near Afghanistan where Bin Laden is considered to be hiding, and where the Pakistani Army apparently fears to tread. I don't exactly recall people being shy about labelling America's backwater areas...




  5. #45
    IncGamers Member Drosselmeier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    Uh, yeah, that's kind of the point (the article is a .PDF, maybe you don't have Adobe?). When the Center for Stragegic and International Studies coins the phrase, it isn't really a bunch of nutbags calling names. I think I even heard it on CBS a day or two ago...

    Bear in mind that at issue is the border region near Afghanistan where Bin Laden is considered to be hiding, and where the Pakistani Army apparently fears to tread. I don't exactly recall people being shy about labelling America's backwater areas...
    So this has nothing to do with Pakistan in general? Why did you even bring it up? Chechnya is not Russia, and in the same way "Talibanistan" is not Pakistan. You know this, but you just can't bring yourself to let a mention of Pakistan slip by without making some remark about how horrible it is there. That's how this looks to me.

    Feel free to point to some occasion where I or some other Euro has brought up the worst thing about the US we could find to make a point about your country. You won't be making a point, but it will help you see the errors in your argument.




  6. #46
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drosselmeier
    So this has nothing to do with Pakistan in general? Why did you even bring it up? Chechnya is not Russia, and in the same way "Talibanistan" is not Pakistan. You know this, but you just can't bring yourself to let a mention of Pakistan slip by without making some remark about how horrible it is there. That's how this looks to me.

    Feel free to point to some occasion where I or some other Euro has brought up the worst thing about the US we could find to make a point about your country. You won't be making a point, but it will help you see the errors in your argument.
    See, that's what y'all get for jumping on my case & considering me the jackbooted thug you so desire to see. Obviously you folks are the ones going overboard with projection here...

    My initial response was to Carnage, who was asking if I considered Pakistan extremist. My answer plainly indicated that some of it (the border region) is definitely so, and that my Mom was certainly working in Lahore under some strange circumstances (the "Honorary Man" quip; she was not allowed to attend certain gov't meetings & so forth because of sexist law). The border region has been called "Talibanistan" on occasion because the Pakistanis don't really control it while the fundamentalists working with the Talibs apparently do.




  7. #47
    IncGamers Member WildBerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    Oh, and when were the Aussie witch trials, anyway? Because what you're talking about bears little resemblance to the truth...
    You've made very well-written and to-the-point remarks, JMervyn, and kept a historical perspective well enough that I should think you've taken classes, like me. However, one of the first things I learnt at university was this: "Do not trust Wikipedia. If you do the error of trusting it, at least for God's sake do not trust it as your sole source." Without further delving into Wiki's lack of supervision on the articles, you should bear in mind that Salem is not the sole place where they burned witches. It is true that occasionally witch-trials were driven by misogynistic motives, but especially at on the backwater, eastern border of Europe (like where I live :afro, witches convicted actually were medicine men, people's healers and alike people, who could very well be trialed for witchcraft in the, say, 1600's, mindset. In addition, the place of a medicine man was a place of power. In no European country, in no social class, back in the day would a woman be given a place of power. So these burnt witches couldn't be *itches.

    It is easy to separate places in Europes where animism and the alike practices were still strong that day. Just look at the lists of trials. See if it's guy or gal. If guy, a druid wannabe. If gal, displeased a wrong, really spiteful person who went an told on her something totally outrageous and by this day's standard incredible.

    Keep up the good work, but brush up on your source critique!




  8. #48
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildBerry
    Without further delving into Wiki's lack of supervision on the articles, you should bear in mind that Salem is not the sole place where they burned witches. It is true that occasionally witch-trials were driven by misogynistic motives, but especially at on the backwater, eastern border of Europe (like where I live :afro, witches convicted actually were medicine men, people's healers and alike people, who could very well be trialed for witchcraft in the, say, 1600's, mindset. In addition, the place of a medicine man was a place of power. In no European country, in no social class, back in the day would a woman be given a place of power. So these burnt witches couldn't be *itches.
    I accept that. Wiki is certainly not source material (as the recent scandal makes evident), it is a crutch. But most here are just ranting at each other; since there's so little actually online that covers some of the subjects (as with my "Cold War" dust-up with Dondrei) that Wiki is simply handier. The point is that the difference between witchcraft and superstition versus other religion was marked even back then; the Middle-European **** hadn't been torched for quite some time (though one could argue about the Nazis, it really doesn't bear).

    As for research, I'm a history hobbyist, particularly regarding military history. But that hardly means one can study a subject in isolation...




  9. #49
    IncGamers Member WildBerry's Avatar
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    Oh now you got me started. :smiley:

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    The point is that the difference between witchcraft and superstition versus other religion was marked even back then;
    This is a good, clean point, and I respect it, you just leaned on the wrong stone while doing otherwise the right thing. But now you're going at it again...

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    the Middle-European **** hadn't been torched for quite some time (though one could argue about the Nazis, it really doesn't bear).
    I'm sure you know this since you've done your reading, but are you not aware of the pogroms before and during WWI mostly situated in, but not limited to, Eastern Europe (oo I use this Eastern Europe as a place where everything fishy goes on. Gotta be careful here, I'm the one who scolded you for lack of source critique :wink3? There were, afaik, a couple of **** who happily got themselves lit up.

    I'm sorry, just nitpicking. I know what you're saying and the bottom line is right: the **** were killed mainly because they were well off, or at worst suspicious-looking, not on the grounds that they killed Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    As for research, I'm a history hobbyist, particularly regarding military history. But that hardly means one can study a subject in isolation...
    I'm glad you have healthy hobbies. You should, IMO, broaden your topics of interest. Microhistory, like laDurie's (oo that looks like Duriel's, gotta be careful next time when I read him, the first sentence I'll read will be "Looking for Baal?") "Montaillou" rocks the house and gives you decent idea of what the Joe Average did and thought without losing the greater picture. I'm thinking that military history is often brilliantly written but lacking in self-critique and obsessed with all kinds of details of no consequence, not to mention being strongly partial, even if the writer does not hail from the countries depicted. Bottom line: I know you're civilised, so read some real history too




  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexzed
    Bush executed a man with an IQ of a 7 year old. Surely that does not show higher reasoning.
    :rolleyes:




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