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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by innorton38
    They're called "radical fundamentalists" for a reason. I'm not shocked by anything I hear anymore.
    I was more shocked by the "See? Look how tolerant we are by not executing him if he promises to conform!" statement than anything else.

    That a person so bereft of any higher reasoning skills exists is beyond my power to comprehend. In my mind, such a person has, for all intents and purposes, ceased to be a human being. He's just a mindless zombie with the power to kill.



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  2. #12
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane
    That a person so bereft of any higher reasoning skills exists is beyond my power to comprehend. In my mind, such a person has, for all intents and purposes, ceased to be a human being. He's just a mindless zombie with the power to kill.
    Careful, Saro. Don't you remember how vilified I was for talking about "sub-humans" in this vein?

    After all, everyone on the tolerant OTF knows that it is only terrorist Christians like myself who are really so abnormal & immoral. :grin:




  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane
    I was more shocked by the "See? Look how tolerant we are by not executing him if he promises to conform!" statement than anything else.

    That a person so bereft of any higher reasoning skills exists is beyond my power to comprehend. In my mind, such a person has, for all intents and purposes, ceased to be a human being. He's just a mindless zombie with the power to kill.
    innorton has the right idea - I mean, you'll never hear of the normal ones. Pat Robertson advocates killing, and he's a fundamentalist. Ann Coulter advocates killing, and she's a fundamentalist. Bush advocates killing...and the list goes on. Bottom line is that we should compare apples to apples. We have our fruitcakes, so do they. Bush executed a man with an IQ of a 7 year old. Surely that does not show higher reasoning.

    I just like to make sure it's not just the crazy fundamentalists over there who get the spotlight. I agree it's wrong...but remember, when you point a finger, you have three pointing back at you! rop:

    [edit: jmervyn - you beat me to it!]




  4. #14
    IncGamers Member innorton38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane
    I was more shocked by the "See? Look how tolerant we are by not executing him if he promises to conform!" statement than anything else.

    That a person so bereft of any higher reasoning skills exists is beyond my power to comprehend. In my mind, such a person has, for all intents and purposes, ceased to be a human being. He's just a mindless zombie with the power to kill.
    I agree completely. I'm just not shocked by this type of "news story." In my mind, anyone (American, English, German, Iraqi...) that can use a long knife and cut off the head of another human being while they are screaming and begging for mercy is not a human being. They may, scientifically, be a homo sapien, but are far from being human.

    I just worry that inflammatory stories like this serve to fan the flames of ignorance and intolerance.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexzed
    I mean, you'll never hear of the normal ones. Pat Robertson advocates killing, and he's a fundamentalist. Ann Coulter advocates killing, and she's a fundamentalist. Bush advocates killing...and the list goes on. Bottom line is that we should compare apples to apples. We have our fruitcakes, so do they. Bush executed a man with an IQ of a 7 year old. Surely that does not show higher reasoning.
    Thank you Alex, that's what I was clumsily trying to say.




  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by alexzed
    Pat Robertson advocates killing, and he's a fundamentalist. Ann Coulter advocates killing, and she's a fundamentalist.
    Like I said, it wasn't even so much the proposed act as it was the irrationality of the statement that made me blink. I think you can advocate killing and still be a rational person (See: Death Penalty debates), but saying that you are tolerant when you are ready to execute someone for holding a different point of view is just incomprehensible to me.

    The two you mentioned may advocate killing, but do they claim to be doing it out of tolerance for the beliefs of the victim?



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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane
    The two you mentioned may advocate killing, but do they claim to be doing it out of tolerance for the beliefs of the victim?
    Yeah - that's nutty. No defending that kind of thought. But is this far off? "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Could be argued to be the same...

    meh - they're all nuts. I'm going to my log cabin in the woods and befriend the squirrels.




  7. #17
    IncGamers Member RevenantsKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaroDarksbane
    Like I said, it wasn't even so much the proposed act as it was the irrationality of the statement that made me blink. I think you can advocate killing and still be a rational person (See: Death Penalty debates), but saying that you are tolerant when you are ready to execute someone for holding a different point of view is just incomprehensible to me.

    The two you mentioned may advocate killing, but do they claim to be doing it out of tolerance for the beliefs of the victim?
    I think you're misinterpreting what the quoted person means by "tolerance." Eternium is correct in that converting from Islam is punishable by death according to traditional Islamic schools of thought on law (well, at least some of them...I don't know if it holds true for all) and therefore I'm sure that they see such a conversion as a sin. In this case, then, "tolerance" refers to a tolerance of errors, of those who make mistakes but then repent. That has nothing to do with the accused's beliefs and religious freedom. The quoted person is not claiming to be tolerant of Christianity, as far as I've seen of this.




  8. #18
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexzed
    Yeah - that's nutty. No defending that kind of thought. But is this far off? "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Could be argued to be the same...
    Well, Coulter strives to be offensive to libs as possible (and can sell her product), and while Robertson is full of his own, er, hyperbole, he's far too mild to be regarded as a real militant. If you want to find a Westerner of any public note who held religious convictions of this type, you'd have to go back to someone like Richard the Lionheart.

    " liberals love America like O.J. loved Nicole" :laughing:




  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RevenantsKnight
    In this case, then, "tolerance" refers to a tolerance of errors, of those who make mistakes but then repent. That has nothing to do with the accused's beliefs and religious freedom.
    God, I hope you're right.



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  10. #20
    IncGamers Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    Well, Coulter strives to be offensive to libs as possible (and can sell her product), and while Robertson is full of his own, er, hyperbole, he's far too mild to be regarded as a real militant.
    Argh - I can't believe you tricked me into going to her website! (Frantically deletes history, dumps computer into soapy water and scrubs hands with lye...)

    My point was that there are nutjobs everywhere, and rather than just pigeonhole an entire culture, have a look around.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn
    If you want to find a Westerner of any public note who held religious convictions of this type, you'd have to go back to someone like Richard the Lionheart.
    Well, not necessarily...

    There is significant evidence that the scope and scale of the manipulation, suppression and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented... There is a well-established pattern of suppression and distortion of scientific findings by high-ranking Bush administration political appointees across numerous federal agencies. These actions have consequences for human health, public safety, and community well-being." (Union of Concerned Scientists, report, Scientific Integrity in Policymaking. 2004.)

    Apples to apples!




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