Anti-Caster build (questions again)

[Occam]

I've been looking pretty seriously at building a BvC (hence the other questions) and I have all the gear for one without too much effort (with the exception of grief- still working on that).

But reading about a Kicksin Mageslayer similar, built around something similar to this guide http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=554
has me interested. Gear for this one is just a matter of digging through mules.

So I'm looking at two criteria in deciding;

Which of these is more viable/stronger as a pure caster fighter (no trying to fight other ww barbs, etc) Obviously th barb has a big advantage in terms of tanking, but I'm not too familiar with the strength of kicksins. And before anyone suggests a wwsin, if I were going to go the route I'd much prefer the barb.

Second, and less important; which of these has the better learning curve? Not that either of them can be useful with no skill, but which would be most effective for someone with no experience against casters to speak of?

Either would be for pub games, no mid leveling dueling or the like. Also, if anyone knows of a superior/more up to date guide for the kicksin, I'd be interested.

[WhiteAlien]

I've made also kicksin based on that guide. It worked very well. All sorc and amas hated me.

Ok, U dont want make wwsin, but just think of this. If U can afford Chaos, just put it on right hand and Fury on left hand. This U can reach max kick speed and huge OW same time with ability to ww and that all going with fade. U will have max resist stacked, 50% DR, 60% block with claws and ~3k life. Thats much better than pure kicker, I have tryed it, I know. If U are lasy to figure out the gear I can tell U that.

[Occam]

I hadn't thought of a hybrid build like that. My reasoning was just that; if you go to the trouble of setting up a wwsin/hybrid, and knowing how effective ww can be, you're probably going to end up using ww more than kicking. So then its a case of the old ww barb vs. wwsin, in which case my preference would be with the barb.

So I don't know, why would you ever use both ww and kicking? Also, iirc early levels of ww actually reduce your damage, how much of an issue is that for wwsins? Did you use enigma or dflight on that kind of build?

[WhiteAlien]

I hadn't thought of a hybrid build like that. My reasoning was just that; if you go to the trouble of setting up a wwsin/hybrid, and knowing how effective ww can be, you're probably going to end up using ww more than kicking. So then its a case of the old ww barb vs. wwsin, in which case my preference would be with the barb.

So I don't know, why would you ever use both ww and kicking? Also, iirc early levels of ww actually reduce your damage, how much of an issue is that for wwsins? Did you use enigma or dflight on that kind of build?

Melee assa kills with venom, not real phisical dmg. If U cant afford bramble your effectivity will go down a lot. With nice bramble, facets and trangs gloves U can reach +2k venom dmg. Also, its not realy a hybrid. Claw mastery and Dragon talon does not have synergies so U have a lots of spear points.
U use DF and DT against casters and ww against melee otherwise pure kicker against melee is hopeless. Ofc, U will never be able to beat real good ww barb, either with kicker or wwsin.
Its just my advice to put 20 pts in claw masteries and get Chaos instead of maxing DF. Atleast U have one backup skill.

[kabal]

Melee assa kills with venom, not real phisical dmg. If U cant afford bramble your effectivity will go down a lot. With nice bramble, facets and trangs gloves U can reach +2k venom dmg.

You can get 2k venom damage with your normal field gear (Enigma, Trang's, etc.), unless you mean 2k damage after the PvP and Hell PLR penalties. Regardless, I don't think a good anti-caster kick/ww-sin would use Bramble over Enigma and lose the ability to teleport.

[WhiteAlien]

You can get 2k venom damage with your normal field gear (Enigma, Trang's, etc.), unless you mean 2k damage after the PvP and Hell PLR penalties. Regardless, I don't think a good anti-caster kick/ww-sin would use Bramble over Enigma and lose the ability to teleport.

Explain me how with enigma and trangs U can reach 2k venom? (unless U are counting like for enchant, when its applayed 2 times - when U cast and at the moment fo attack)

U will dragon flight, so no need for enigma.

[Speederländer]

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthrea...16#post3760416


More current version on Dtrades, which I won't link to here, in the assassin guide section. The differences are small, however.

[De4dEyE]

Explain me how with enigma and trangs U can reach 2k venom? (unless U are counting like for enchant, when its applayed 2 times - when U cast and at the moment fo attack)

U will dragon flight, so no need for enigma.

Wow. Totally incorrect.

[Speederländer]

Explain me how with enigma and trangs U can reach 2k venom? (unless U are counting like for enchant, when its applayed 2 times - when U cast and at the moment fo attack)

lvl 48 venom = 1365 average base psn damage over .4 sec.
trangs bonus to base = 1365 * 1.25 = 1706 over .4 sec
trangs bonus on application (acting on modified #) = 1706.25 *1.25 = 2133 over .4 sec
Actual poison damage delivered in Hell with Hell length penalty = 4265 over .8 sec

This of course doesn't account for the PvP damage reduction or target psn res, but you just asked for the raw damage, which is how everyone refers to other damage types anyway.

[Speederländer]

Wow. Totally incorrect.