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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member sirpoopsalot's Avatar
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    Different build idea, need suggestions

    I usually hang out at the Single Player Forum (since I only play SP), but you guys are probably a better resource for a build idea that I've been kicking around for a long time. Before I go on, I should clarify that I realize that this is probably an underpowered build. I'm not looking for cookie-cutter & ultra-powerful. I'm looking for a character capable of finishing hell difficulty (alone), and surviving fairly well along the way. He doesn't have to be extremely fast about his progress, but I'm not looking for something so underpowered that I have to pick individual monsters out of each and every pack to make any progress. I do play softcore, so dying a few times isn't critical. Dying 500 times is a frustration that I'd like to avoid. I'd also like to avoid making this a variant of a Fanatic, Zealot, or Hammerdin.

    Oh yeah, one more point: I'm completely new to Paladins so this may or may not have been tried before (I didn't see it in the build guides, but maybe it's been discussed in the past). Sorry if I'm dredging up an old discussion, but on to the idea:

    I'd like to build a Paladin that is centered around a Conviction aura and throwing Gimmershred's for attack (with a lower resist charges wand on switch for maximum elemental damage). My preliminary investigation shows that the weapon speed is an atrocious 14 fpa without any additional IAS (Gimmer's comes with 30% IAS). If I equip a Higlord's Wrath, 20% IAS gloves, and socket my helm, armor, and shield with IAS jewels, that brings me down to 10 fpa (105% IAS).

    Although my damage for every monster should be good (hopefully fantastic), that's still a pretty slow attack speed, so my first concern is getting swarmed. So what's the best crowd control skill available to Paladin's (keep in mind that I don't want to focus on zeal, fanaticism, or hammers)? Also, the conviction aura will require a full-time commitment to maintain the power of my attack, so that leaves me with only Combat Skills to choose from. Obviously Holy Shield will help, but other than that it seems like Conversion seems like a temporary way to even up the numbers in a tough fight, even though it's not really that great of a skill.

    So, now you know my thoughts and intended play style. Here's some specific's about what I'm thinking.

    Skills:
    20 Conviction
    20 Conversion
    20 Holy Shield
    20 Vengance (right-mouse=throw/convert, left-mouse=melee)
    9 points for prereq's, so the build would be "finished" at lvl77, a couple of points to get Cleansing, then extra points will probably go into the resist lightning/fire/cold skills to boost my max. resists.

    Stats: Str & Dex=enough for equipment/max block, Vit=Everything else, Ene=Nothing

    Gear:
    Helm= Shako (IAS jewel)
    Armor= Guardian Angel (IAS jewel)
    Weapon1= Gimmershred's
    Weapon2= Lower Resist Charges wand
    Shield1= HoZ (IAS jewel)
    Shield2= ?????? (PDiamond Stormshield? 2x PDiamond Moser's?)
    Gloves= LoH
    Belt= ??????? (Whistan's for dual-leech?)
    Boots= ?????? (I have a nice rare with 20 FR/W, 30+ Cold res, 30+ Light. res, other goodies)
    Ring= Ravenfrost
    Ring= SoJ
    Ammy= Highlord's Wrath

    Merc: Holy-Freeze, with Reaper's Toll (Shael'd), Lionheart, and Guillaume's Face.


    Ok, now for my questions:

    1) Are my IAS/fpa numbers correct for throwing? How about melee.
    2) Is Vengence melee only, or can I use it while throwing the Gimmer's?
    3) Is Conversion affected by IAS, FCR, or any other mod so I can increase its speed.
    4) I'm thinking that I'll probably have to load on quite a few charms to have good/max resists, but should I go with skillers instead? Captain's or Lion-Branded? (I'll also fill in the blanks with FR/W charms).
    5) I only have one HoZ, so I'm not sure what to do for the second sheild (exile's not an option). I'm leaning toward's the Moser's over Stormy. Thoughts?
    6) How about the belt & boots?
    7) Do I have a chance in hell? (literally and figuratively :wink3

    Thanks for any and all ideas.




  2. #2
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    Why not vengence synergies first? That is definitely more useful than 20 points conversion.

    2) Melee only, I think.
    5) Spirit if you use the RWM.
    6) Gores for boots, probably.
    7) Probably, but I don't know.




  3. #3
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    Believe it or not, I was just about to post almost exactly the same build. The main differences are:
    I was planning to put some points (1-4) into zeal instead of vengeance. The damage per time would be bigger I think.The physical damage of Gimmershred, especially when not throwing, is pathetic, so I wouldn't base my vengeance damage on it. Perhaps with a powerful weapon on switch....

    My gear selection is different: Duress for 37-133 cold damage(not entirely negligible), cb and ow, and Dragonscale for a lot of fire damage and settting a fieldful of hydras.




  4. #4
    IncGamers Member sirpoopsalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeCraze
    Why not vengence synergies first? That is definitely more useful than 20 points conversion.
    Wouldn't I just be another avenger at that point? It's probably a stronger build, but I'm looking to take a break from cookie-cutters. Spirit's a good idea too, but I'm not RWM.

    @Grim9, you're probably right about the zeal vs. vengeance, but I'd prefer to make this primarily a ranged attacker, with melee only as a backup because of my slow attack speed. It seems like everyone and their sister has a zealot variant. :azn: No Duress/Dragonscale available for me though.




  5. #5
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    My idea also was a mainly ranged character. I only intended zeal for the occassions when you don't have no choice but melee. Also I intended to use Guillaume's Face and Goblin toes, ( a lot of %cb).

    I agree with you that speed is going to be a problem with this build.

    I think Conversion is a great idea for crowd control . Maybe you won't need to dump 20 points into it though.

    Lower resist charges is a good point too I'd have a wand with life tap charges too to help your merc stay alive at times when using conversion is not possible for some reason.

    I don't know if conviction will completely make up for the lack of %attack rating and plain attack rating in your gear and skills. perhaps some spare points in blessed aim to take advantage of the synergy...

    Points in resist lightning, fire, cold is another good point I think.rop:

    With my suggestions this character is less of a 'pure' build, but I think is more versatile and his survabilty increases.




  6. #6
    IncGamers Member kingdryland's Avatar
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    I can see you having attack rating problems as well while throwing. In this case you could use lava gout gloves for the enchant bonus and the extra fire damage. The extra 350% ed to demons from loh won't be great since your base physical damage is low. Perhap's a cat's eye amulet is better choice than highlords here,the extra 25 points to dexterity and the defense, might prove more handy than the deadly strike.

    For armor you have some nice options. Black hades with 3x15%ias jewels, or gris armor with 3x15% ias jewels or a nice treachery. Treachery has the lowest defense overall but it will provide you with nice mods. Venom to work with your lower resists,the 45% ias ,fade and cold resists.

    Since 10fpa attack is not enough for you here it goes. Andariel's helm would be a nice idea but it won't work,since it is ladder only...So you can use m'avina's diadem socketed with a 15% ias jewel and socket your shield with yet another 15% ias jewel to a total of 175% ias that will take you to 9fpa. You can use the belt from m'avina for the frw,mana leech and partial strength bonus.

    You shouldn't expect to go any lower with gimmershred and no fanaticism.

    Other suggestion. Abandon the idea of 9fpa,stick with 10,ditch highlords and soj and use angelics instead. Then use an armor with high resists like smoke for example...Generally rangers like the one you plan to make are low on resists but it doesn't have to be this way.




  7. #7
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    being a ranged/elemental attacker like your planning your going to have problems with conviction. the radius is set at 13.3 yards. so the majority of the time you might be throwing outside of the radius. plus i would change the gear to more of elemental on the pally and merc to get as much elemental damage as possible, max holy shield for block and defense. if your still planning on being a ranged attacker, a hloy freeze merc works good. for mellee, id go with a rogue or iron mage.




  8. #8
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  9. #9
    IncGamers Member sirpoopsalot's Avatar
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    @Grim9 - yeah, maybe 20 for conversion isn't necessary, but as my (planned) primary crowd control skill every extra% seems like it could be a lifesaver - assuming I stay true to my intended build and avoid making this a zealot variant.

    @kingdryland - doesn't level 20 conviction lower a monster's Defence rating by 90%? Or does this only apply to certain monsters? It seems to me that should help emmensly (sp?) with my low AR, but as I mentioned I'm new to pally's, so maybe I'm mistaken. Oh yeah FYI, ladder-only items can spawn in single-player, so Andy's is an option. Great suggestions on the armor's though, I was thinking the +15 max resists from GA was ideal, but maybe not for this build. I'll re-weigh some of my equipment options.

    @harley98 - you've hit one of my main concerns: the radius of Conviction makes me a medium ranged attacker, and combining that with my slow attack seems likely to make me a melee char a lot of the time (I want to stay ranged as much as possible). I was thinking of the more defense oriented gear over more +elemental damage gear, just to increase survivability, but maybe a good offense is the best defense, huh?

    @niner - thanks for the idea, but as I mentioned, I want to avoid making a zealot variant (for now). 15-20 points in zeal as a primary attack skill seems like it would defeat that goal.


    Thanks everyone, I think I'll give this a try before too long, but I think I may need to collect a few socket quests first :smiley:.




  10. #10
    IncGamers Member kingdryland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpoopsalot

    @kingdryland - doesn't level 20 conviction lower a monster's Defence rating by 90%? Or does this only apply to certain monsters? It seems to me that should help emmensly (sp?) with my low AR, but as I mentioned I'm new to pally's, so maybe I'm mistaken.
    In theory conviction makes you need way lower ar but in practice you will need a decent amount of it. Even avengers (vengeance offers ar bonus) need some ar. You won't be needing crazy numbers though.




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