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  1. #251
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    Michael Hastings Cremated, Unauthorized by Family.
    Gotta admit, both this and Breitbart's death seemed to warrant greater investigation IMO.

  2. #252
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Gotta admit, both this and Breitbart's death seemed to warrant greater investigation IMO.
    Well with the pubic outrage I have seen they can't keep it up for long now.


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  4. #254
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    Wow; amazing how something that would have been screamed from the rooftops as the epitome of EBIL is now just humdrum normality...

    Looks like it's the Gulag for anyone who goes against the administration. Buh-bye FOX n00z sources.

  5. #255
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??


  6. #256
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    The constitutional court is empowerd to turn down laws which are violating the constitution or to order the parliament to change it, with a deadline, right? Or is it infiltrated with lobbyists and politicians as well?

    You probably know that the NSA spies out internet and telephone traffic worldwird, in particular Germany's. I wasn't surprised that they do it, but I didn't expect it to be of that extent. The people here are pretty angry, but the politicians remain rather calm, including the opposition. the reason is simple: All important parties here didn't just knew about the issue and tolerated it, they even allowed and supported it! Our own secret services and the army is also involved in getting information. What a pathetic bunch of worms we have in our government, as well as the (ex-government) opposition parties! So I cannot evern blame the US for treating their allies like dogs, their government just invited the US to do so.

    The chancellor swore an oath to protect the people from harm, but I guess she hypnotized herself into believing that spying out their private lives is to the best of them on some dubious "grand scale". Mrs Teflon Merkel's strategy seems to be to sit out the issue and unfortunately, she could be successful. As said, the opposition isn't any better, so we cannot cannot get rid of the cockroaches in our house, just decide between subspecies. We have a small advantage, however, we have 4-6 subspecies while the US has just two. Nevertheless: Cockroaches!

    FYI, Firefox (and most other web browser) helps as well at spyingyou out be default as well sends data to Google by default, to protect you from scamming. In the security tab of the browser settings, there are two options "block web sites which are known as attacking" and "block web sites which are know for scams" (or something like that). This is achieved by sending your selected URLs to (AFAIK) Google to ask if they are ptentially dangerous. That means, Google knows which web sites you are visiting, makes profiles about it and guess what, Google sends their information to the secret service, being fine and satisfied with appearing as being forced to do that. I suggest to disable these two options. I doubt that it's any better with the IE and don't even ask about *Google* Chrome.

    In case you believe that they cannot identify you, e.g. because you have a different IP address, use a proxy or whatever: WRONG. You can be identified easily by the various information which your browser sends out by default. Now they just need to know a web site on which you registered with your real name, e.g. your bank, demand the customer data and BINGO, there we have (example) Bobcox, the guy with the loose mouth in the OTF and known for a lot of other unamerican activities, like talking back to the authorities. Ah, and that's jmervyn, the guy who dislikes our elephants almost as much as our donkeys.
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  7. #257
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    A bump for this so all the americans can check their rep.

  8. #258
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

    When Bonneau learned that he has won the award from the NSA, he considered turning it down. However, he ultimately decided upon accepting as a way to potentially bridge academic gaps with the NSA, as a means of opening up at least one avenue into the organization that has been mostly closed.
    That said, the winner of the NSA award wants, like many privacy rights activists and citizens concerned with the government’s Fourth Amendment violations, for the NSA to be reformed by a political process (like the one which narrowly failed in the House yesterday).
    Either that, or have it abolished altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    A bump for this so all the americans can check their rep.
    Lawmakers Who Upheld NSA Phone Spying Received Double the Defense Industry Cash

    The numbers tell the story — in votes and dollars. On Wednesday, the House voted 217 to 205 not to rein in the NSA’s phone-spying dragnet. It turns out that those 217 “no” voters received twice as much campaign financing from the defense and intelligence industry as the 205 “yes” voters.
    That’s the upshot of a new analysis by MapLight, a Berkeley-based non-profit that performed the inquiry at WIRED’s request. The investigation shows that defense cash was a better predictor of a member’s vote on the Amash amendment than party affiliation. House members who voted to continue the massive phone-call-metadata spy program, on average, raked in 122 percent more money from defense contractors than those who voted to dismantle it.



  9. #259
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    The NSA's Surveillance Is Unconstitutional: Congress Or The Courts Should Put A Stop To These Unreasonable Data Seizures

    Due largely to unauthorized leaks, we now know that the National Security Agency has seized from private companies voluminous data on the phone and Internet usage of all U.S. citizens. We've also learned that the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has approved the constitutionality of these seizures in secret proceedings in which only the government appears, and in opinions kept secret even from the private companies from whom the data are seized.
    If this weren't disturbing enough, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, created by the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform, is compiling a massive database of citizens' personal information—including monthly credit-card, mortgage, car and other payments—ostensibly to protect consumers from abuses by financial institutions.

    All of this dangerously violates the most fundamental principles of our republican form of government. The Fourth Amendment has two parts: First, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated." Second, that "no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
    By banning unreasonable "seizures" of a person's "papers," the Fourth Amendment clearly protects what we today call "informational privacy." Rather than seizing the private papers of individual citizens, the NSA and CFPB programs instead seize the records of the private communications companies with which citizens do business under contractual "terms of service." These contracts do not authorize data-sharing with the government. Indeed, these private companies have insisted that they be compelled by statute and warrant to produce their records so as not to be accused of breaching their contracts and willingly betraying their customers' trust.
    As other legal scholars, most notably Yale law professor Akhil Reed Amar, have pointed out, when the Fourth Amendment was ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, government agents were liable for damages in civil tort actions for trespass. The Seventh Amendment preserved the right to have a jury composed of ordinary citizens pass upon the "reasonableness" of any searches or seizures. Because judges were not trusted to jealously guard the liberties of the people, the Fourth Amendment restricted the issuance of warrants to the heightened requirements of "probable cause" and specificity.
    Over time, as law-enforcement agents were granted qualified immunity from civil suits, it fell mainly to judges to assess the "reasonableness" of a government search or seizure during a criminal prosecution, thereby undermining the original republican scheme of holding law enforcement accountable to citizen juries.
    True, judges have long been approving search warrants by relying on ex parte affidavits from law enforcement. With the NSA's surveillance program, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has apparently secretly approved the blanket seizure of data on every American so this "metadata" can later provide the probable cause for a particular search. Such indiscriminate data seizures are the epitome of "unreasonable," akin to the "general warrants" issued by the Crown to authorize searches of Colonial Americans.
    Still worse, the way these programs have been approved violates the Fifth Amendment, which stipulates that no one may be deprived of property "without due process of law." Secret judicial proceedings adjudicating the rights of private parties, without any ability to participate or even read the legal opinions of the judges, is the antithesis of the due process of law.
    In a republican government based on popular sovereignty, the people are the principals or masters and those in government are merely their agents or servants. For the people to control their servants, however, they must know what their servants are doing.
    The secrecy of these programs makes it impossible to hold elected officials and appointed bureaucrats accountable. Relying solely on internal governmental checks violates the fundamental constitutional principle that the sovereign people must be the ultimate external judge of their servants' conduct in office. Yet such judgment and control is impossible without the information that such secret programs conceal. Had it not been for recent leaks, the American public would have no idea of the existence of these programs, and we still cannot be certain of their scope.
    Even if these blanket data-seizure programs are perfectly proper now, the technical capability they create makes it far easier for government to violate the rights of the people in the future. Consider why gun rights advocates so vociferously oppose gun registration. By providing the government with information about the location of private arms, gun registries make it feasible for gun confiscation to take place in the future when the political and legal climate may have shifted. The only effective way to prevent the confiscation of firearms tomorrow is to deprive authorities of the means to do so today.
    Like gun registries, these NSA and CFPB databanks make it feasible for government workers to peruse the private contents of our electronic communication and financial transactions without our knowledge or consent. All it takes is the will, combined with the right political climate.
    Congress or the courts must put a stop to these unreasonable blanket seizures of data and end the jurisdiction of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to secretly adjudicate the constitutionality of surveillance programs. Both practices constitute a present danger to popular sovereignty and the rights retained by the people.

  10. #260
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans -- seditious Quakers walk amongst us??

    I think the US decision makers don't give an excrement about what their so-called allies want. I cannot even blame them for that, but I also think that if friendly words don't help, then it needs deeds.

    100 years ago, something like this could have led to a war, but hey, we are friends, aren't we? It's OK if our big sister makes nude pics of us and shows them to other friends... ehh wait, what?

    Perhaps we should fire the traitorous staffs of our secret service, army and government (or better, we throw them into jail), leave the NATO, build our own nukes and... err whoops, I got a bit carried away.

    *Wipes off foam from mouth*

    That won't happen, of course. I doubt that the European countries have the balls for doing that .
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